Desert Storm

CHCA participation is growing and growing in the rally class! 150 bucks, winnings, full recce, no restrictors, mufflers, cats, open spectating, photos and videos allowed, no great lakes B.S. Many hillclimbers have claimed they're done with rallying.

AaronJMcConnell Wrote:
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> CHCA participation is growing and growing in the
> rally class! 150 bucks, winnings, full recce, no
> restrictors, mufflers, cats, open spectating,
> photos and videos allowed, no great lakes B.S.
> Many hillclimbers have claimed they're done with
> rallying.

But can family and friends call you on the cell phone?
Got a link to the Cell Phone Use Regulations?

Don't call, Don't Tell!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Considering there are only 3 RA events in CRS this year and the HANS thing and decisions alluded to by Moose are issues for some folks, you will probably see entries start picking up as the NASA events start rolling around. There were also a handful of competitors that I spoke to last year who disliked the DS roads and said privately that they would not run them again, though I've personally never run them, so won't bash them.

If you are around in two weeks, check out the High Desert Trails rallysprint in Ridgecrest. It's already got 4 entries and is welcoming all-comers, including vehicles sanctioned by organizations rhyming with "OR". Should be low-key and fun. Starts at 10am, it's cheap, compact, no pressure, and newbie-friendly.

...Brian...

rallybrick Wrote:
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> Considering there are only 3 RA events in CRS this
> year and the HANS thing and decisions alluded to
> by Moose are issues for some folks, you will
> probably see entries start picking up as the NASA
> events start rolling around. There were also a
> handful of competitors that I spoke to last year
> who disliked the DS roads and said privately that
> they would not run them again, though I've
> personally never run them, so won't bash them.

Hey Brian, privately now, just between us, what's up with the roads?
Too fast ? too simple? too rough?
Sure seems like a lot of nasty politics down there.
Has it always been this slimey?
>
> ...Brian...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Anders Green Wrote:
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> > Dude, this dwindling entry thing is THE MAIN THING ...
> > It is a seriously troubling long term trend
>
> Has anyone done some (recently, like up to date)
> statistics of the last 5-10 years or so?

Yeah, I went through Rally Racing News and did up an Excel spreadsheet for most of the events there. Unfortunately, I seem to have lost it in a recent disk crash. Gotta dig through my back-ups and see if I can find it.

What this look at the data showed is there is no long-term trend of decreasing numbers of entries. The overall trend was an up-and-down roller coaster.

Some events would experience significant drops in entries and then bounce back and other wouldn't. Unfortunately, just having the numbers doesn't explain the reasons behind the drops or increases in entries.

alan

Uhhh, since you said "just between us," I sent you a PM. Hit me back.

...Brian...

john vanlandingham Wrote:
> rallybrick Wrote:
> > Considering there are only 3 RA events in CRS this
> > year and the HANS thing and decisions alluded to
> > by Moose are issues for some folks, you will
> > probably see entries start picking up as the NASA
> > events start rolling around. There were also a
> > handful of competitors that I spoke to last year
> > who disliked the DS roads and said privately that
> > they would not run them again, though I've
> > personally never run them, so won't bash them.
>
> Hey Brian, privately now, just between us, what's
> up with the roads?
> Too fast ? too simple? too rough?

I liked the roads, but I only ran it in the old one-day format. Two stages, ran twice in each direction.

I imagine Ken Cassidy doesn't like it there because his car burned to the ground there and Gary Rea doesn't like it because he got winded on a landing so badly that folks thought he was having a heart attack.

alan

> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> Dude, this dwindling entry thing is THE MAIN THING ...

> Anders Green Wrote:
> Has anyone done some (recently, like up to
> date) statistics of the last 5-10 years or so?


Alan Wrote:
> Yeah, I went through Rally Racing News...
>
> What this look at the data showed is there is no
> long-term trend of decreasing numbers of entries.
> The overall trend was an up-and-down roller
> coaster.

I'm really thinking about the effect of gas prices and the economy, which has only really surfaced in the last 9-12 months. Many events seem down this year compared to last, and I don't think last year was a high-point off rally participation, so I'm wondering if our roller coaster went into a dip, and then into _another_ dip.

Cheers,
Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

bah, screw the PMs.

I was at DS last year and this year, my take last year was that people were complaining that the roads got too rough at spots. However, I felt that the rough spots weren't so terrible it was just that you were flying on smooth fast roads for most of the stage and then you hit a rough part. Those who didn't adjust to change in road conditions broke thier cars. The new stages were somewhat similar but only 1 stage really had the rough (and it was river bed drive for like half a mile..so it was very rough). But again, I take it that's the organizer throwing a challenge at the teams..know when to drive fast and when to save the wheels.

Being relatively new to the southwest region it didn't take me long to see that there is some bad blood between some organizers/competitors which does translate into what events people will enter. Mustafa isn't alone in his sentiment, there are other teams that feel similarly. With such a small sport its really too bad, but that's the way it is.

Eddie Fiorelli Wrote:
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> bah, screw the PMs.

Yeah!

Eddie, this business of all smiley smiley in "Public" and then lies and snarls and threats when "Out of view" is one of the major drawbacks to the way the sport, small as it is, is carried on here. Ultimately you can't please everybody, but for me anyway, if I know a person is HONEST, even if we strongly disagree, then we can work together, and have genuine respect.

Better to talk of PROBLEMS, "en claire" and if people act stupid and butt hurt, then HAMMER HOME the message that we are speaking of PROBLEMS (of organisation, running, road selection, not PEOPLE and if they're "good" or "bad".

There are some stupid people and they seem attracted to certain brands and trades, but there's not a lot we can do about that.

But you're right SCREW PMs

>
> I was at DS last year and this year, my take last
> year was that people were complaining that the
> roads got too rough at spots. However, I felt that
> the rough spots weren't so terrible it was just
> that you were flying on smooth fast roads for most
> of the stage and then you hit a rough part. Those
> who didn't adjust to change in road conditions
> broke thier cars.

Don't they have eyes? And brakes?



The new stages were somewhat
> similar but only 1 stage really had the rough (and
> it was river bed drive for like half a mile..so it
> was very rough). But again, I take it that's the
> organizer throwing a challenge at the teams..know
> when to drive fast and when to save the wheels.

Smart driving is GOOD
>
> Being relatively new to the southwest region it
> didn't take me long to see that there is some bad
> blood between some organizers/competitors which
> does translate into what events people will enter.
> Mustafa isn't alone in his sentiment, there are
> other teams that feel similarly. With such a small
> sport its really too bad, but that's the way it
> is.

I know, but it really is a shame. There is simply too much back room "Politicing" and its just a terrible when you know there's a good chance somebody standing there talking to you is holding stuff back, essentially lying by omission, for nothing.

I have really never seen a problem that isn't better solved by serious open discussion vs a few people saying one thing and withholding info they have decided is too "secret" or "special".

But as we see on the closed down poll about banning me, 30% would prefer "Isn't everything just Peeeachy" type of discussion
>
>
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Anders Green Wrote:
> I'm really thinking about the effect of gas prices
> and the economy, which has only really surfaced in
> the last 9-12 months. Many events seem down this
> year compared to last, and I don't think last year
> was a high-point off rally participation, so I'm
> wondering if our roller coaster went into a dip,
> and then into _another_ dip.

I am very concerned about this.

I guess this is a personal attack, but I'm not going to worry about it. But you've baited me...

I didn't post the info I've heard because it's all second-hand and I don't believe they ran the same roads this year. Plus, at the time people were talking last year, it seemed like the end of rally in the Southwest was near and these folks didn't want to start bashing the existing events in the fear that they would go away and then we'd be even more SOL. Now we have a number of new events in CRS (granted, they're spread apart further) with the possibility of two new rallysprints -- all that under the NASA sanction -- so maybe it's not quite so sensitive or taboo now to talk about why you didn't like one event over another.

And I genuinely thought John meant to send me a PM but replied openly.

Eddie, wasn't there a section in the notes last year that actually had a distance call of "1600" between sweeping turns? The complaints I heard were that the roads were waaaay too fast, not the least bit technical, and the section of 8 or so jumps in a row was unnecessary.

John, I need to get my SAM coilovers back. I would really appreciate it if you would respond to my PMs or emails. Thanks.

...Brian...

rallybrick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I
> And I genuinely thought John meant to send me a PM
> but replied openly.

Naw I was being silly.
>


>
> John, I need to get my SAM coilovers back. I
> would really appreciate it if you would respond to
> my PMs or emails. Thanks.

I usually am near the phone.

Hey you said somebody might be interested, how they going use these?
You want the dead tube/knuckles?
I'm supposed to pick up steel today fro another run of tubes which means I could make some tubes to make the inserts DIRECT FIT, so they could function as spares of whatever, this is phone call type stuff, mang!
>
> ...Brian...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I typically feel uncomfortable bashing people in public who do what I'm not necessarily willing or capable of doing -- organizing an event. I have to at least respect that they put the effort in, even if I may not agree with the way it was done. In the end, how I spend my dollar is my loudest and most effective voice in this sort of "conversation".

My own personal thing is that after being involved with the fire service for 7 years and finding my own personal maturity through that (as a firefighter, EMT, etc), I decided that there's a lot more to life than worrying about this stuff too much.

Phone is the worst for me. I've been working A LOT and when I finally get home late in the evenings, my brain is mush. I'll try to call this weekend.

...Brian...

Ah, I missed any complaints about the notes. I ran route books both this year and last and there were defintiely "gotchas" in both years. Last year I got caught out by a left over crest (which I felt should have be in the book) and this year we survived the infamous double dip that caused some people problems. But every rally I've ever driven or co-driven in had sections that I felt should have been in the routebook so I just shrugged it off. This year there were no notes so everyone was on routebook.

If I were running notes then yeah, I can see the expectations of accuracy are different. And if I had low confidence in the notes I could see staying away.

The roads were indeed more fast than technical although this year the ratio wasn't as skewed as last year (ie more technical sections but still generally a fast rally), too fast I can't really comment on since my GTI is a bit weak in the motor dept, and all I remember about the yumps in a row was how fun it was. Clearly, that's just my take in a putt-putt GTI, so YMMV .

Brian, where does this remark about bashing organizers can from? I thought we were trying to discuss why the low turnout. If people don't like the roads and notes, then its probably better to let the organizer know the issues and know that turn out might be low before they sink tons of time and money in an event that may likely not break even.