Dual-Sport RallyCar?

RallyAnarchistas:

Today, what would a purpose built “dual-sport” RallyCar (TSD + Stage) look like if you built one from scratch, on purpose, because you wanted to?

Anything different from your Stage rallycar of choice?
What stage rally class would you target with a “dual-sport” car?

Rich Smith




(Yeah, Rallycross is part of it too.)
(Yeah, this is a takeoff on the Rally Festival topic.)

At Baie, Crazy Leo had the STi he wadded up last year at Defi as his recce car. Flat black with flat black cage, no stickers. Totally stealth...for an STi.

But for a car for the typical Rally Anarchist, I'd have to say probably an old 240 Volvo complete with 25 year old "patina".

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Sooooo many compromises would have to be made, in both directions. A road car with belts, race seats, and a full cage that was comfortable/safe to drive around in traffic? Yikes, you can have it.

I think the best way to have one car that "does both" is have a car start as a TSD car, then build it to a stage car. Then it will have done both. But ok, I accept your premise, that you want to do such a thing. Answer: a New Beetle. It would have enough headroom that the cage would be pretty far from your head during normal driving.

>What stage rally class would you target with a “dual-sport” car?

You would not target any class. You would come into it realizing that the compromises that you already made would have the car be uncompetitive. Class would be irrelevant, as someone who was NOT trying to dual their car would optimize, and you wouldn't. You would probably end up in a production based class though.

AND rallycross??? Oh boy!

Here's what I would do: cage up a late-90s Impreza. Tow it with another late-90s impreza. (You may laugh, but Zimmer has done it, so there. ) The tow vehicle is your tsd car. Hell, do the TSD with the trailer attached! 8)


Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

I would either use an early 90s Legacy or a Galant AWD. There was just a 89 Galant AWD on Craigslist for a couple hundred that needed a motor.

TSD requires more commfort than the typical car. I would want room to change out the seats to recliners for TSD stuff. The bigger shells would give you that room. No Alibi was something like 500 miles. Being cramped in rally seats and a Talon or RX7 for hours on end wouldn't be very pleasant.

A 4 door allows access to the rear seat for luggage or other daily use stuff.

AWD would be useful in TSDs for winter events. You might not be able to carry enough speed in a 2wd for snow conditions. That would be my biggest reason for not doing a Volvo.

A full dash, AC, headliner and stereo would be nice also. Maybe toss the carpet back in also, reduce noise and dust.

Having something JVL can make suspension for would be a huge consideration also.

fiasco Wrote:
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> At Baie, Crazy Leo had the STi he wadded up last
> year at Defi as his recce car. Flat black with
> flat black cage, no stickers. Totally
> stealth...for an STi.

That is "Bastard". Crazy Leo still got exhaust ticket and hassled by Quebec cops for racing harnesses and something else I forget on the way there.

"Beast" is the rallycar we've been running this year and at Tall Pines. There is also "Bitch" and "Green Monster". Green Monster is an old Impreza 'L' that CanJam Motorsports tools around Toronto in breaking in STi race motors and what we used for recce at PerceNeige. Talk about a sleeper. Fear the Green Monster.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2008 01:01AM by CommanderSalamander.

Rich, it would just like Skye's, Scott's and Scott's and Kevin's.

The biggest difference compared to a street car would be final drive and the beauty of the 2300 turbo cars is they can be high overall competitive with just a 4.3 axle ratio and yet, with the either 0,63 or 0,72 overdrive 5th in the Borg Warner box, they can still CRUISE in 5th with much less revs than a stock Volvo or Xratty.
Cause the thing with a dual sport car is you gotta drive a LOT of plain highway miles.
While a decent stage car wants accelleration.
2300 turbo motor with the right-sized turbo gives instant spool, more than enough oooomph and can do 115-120 in 4th.
Then cruuuuuuuuuise at 70 at 2400 rpm or so.

Winter events: studded tires and a good diff and you go just as well as anything else. We've done that before.

Maybe comfier seats like Gene suggested---but I say choosing comfy seats for stage rally is also important

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

If I had to do it all over again, early seventies Mercedes 450SEL.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

In retrospect...you can run studs in the winter here on TSD stuff , so that would even up the 2wd considerably. Then you could do the g2/g5 classes rather than Open when it came to stage rally and actually have fun..

Comfy seats are always important, but on long drive TSDs I would want way more than a rally seat. Adjustable back and bottom, lumbar, maybe even bun warmers. Richard is no spring chicken and us old guys have to worry about bad backs, blood clots in the legs and so on. Any seat have a rocking chair option also??

Cage clearance would be a huge factor for dual purpose and I'd probably change out the padding for TSD stuff. That FIA padding is actually harder than the tubing under it...

I assume by dual sport, you mean something you can compete in multiple types of events in.
The best is a Merkur, Volvo, AE86 Corolla, or Nissan 240 (ala Martin Walter).
Swaybars, street/track suspension, and a set of 16' wheels with tires and you can go play drifter or track days. You may as well remove the skid plate for weight reduction.
Throw the skidplate and rally suspension back on, remove the rear sway bar and reinstall the smaller front one and you're ready to go rally or rallycross.
If you want to daily drive it, you have a car with cheap insurance costs, though if you happen to get wrecked into and total the shell you'll probably get like a $600 settlement. That's my biggest dissuation from daily driving any rally car.

If you are talking about a car you can drive to events, run the event, drive home, drive to work, drive to the bar, etc. then your best bet is a GC8 Impreza with a NA motor. Mark Malsom did Paris, Cog a few times, and a few hill climbs all like this.
I drive my Merkur to events. So far I've had to have it towed back by someone else who's rally car we took off the trailer and drove back twice out of the four times I've taken it out.

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Grant Hughes

heymagic Wrote:
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> Comfy seats are always important, but on long
> drive TSDs I would want way more than a rally
> seat. Adjustable back and bottom, lumbar, maybe
> even bun warmers. Richard is no spring chicken and
> us old guys have to worry about bad backs, blood
> clots in the legs and so on. Any seat have a
> rocking chair option also??


Gene,

Ya know, I think I still have a pair of "Victory Racing Seats" that Jerry Hines put in my Colt when he first built it (1980?). Remember those? Large size and man were they comfy! Whoo Hoo! Victory never dies!

Good idea to change 'em out for a Stage Rally though. Easily done.

Rich Smith

TSD isn't a sport. it's an activity!

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

This reminds me too. Stephan Verdier's drift car was originally built for dual purpose with gearbox (RWD to AWD) and suspension and probably a few other parts being planned to swap between drift and rally. Then he got the offer to drive the Flatirons PGT car so the drift car has been just a drift car.

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Grant Hughes

I do not understand..the are all dual sport, other then the golf that had silly short gears and thus was not so good for the freeway (can you say 6500 RPM in 5th) I have driven all my rally cars as daily drivers at one point or another.

I would do a turbo car as you can run the boost down for street gas and better mileage, and gears are not so important.

I would leave in more interior and might leave in the stock belts along with the rally belts.

This was the orgin of P and PGT.

My wife drove the Open Class 323 GTX for over a year to work every day - it worked fine for that accept in a skirt it was hard to get over the door bars.

We had some Victory Seats from Neigle on office chair bases for years at home.

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In the long run reality always wins.

tedm Wrote:
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> TSD isn't a sport. it's an activity!
>
> Ted Mendham
> www.rensport.net

Ted,
You sound just like the SCCA national Board of Directors. They think the only sport in SCCA is road racing. Solo, RallyCross and RoadRally are all just activities.

Thanks for so clearly stating the way the BoD treats the other competitions within SCCA. I'm going to steal the phrase. Uh, you didn't copyright that did you?
Richard

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RichardM

I know Fiacso will hold this over my head next March when I say I'm NEVER DOING VWR again, but there are some TSD's that might be conisdered sport....if you put "full contact" in front...or if you consider self-flagelation sport...or if you consider how Johnny-Law looks at ralliests as it relates to his quota.

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She's screamn' fer eet!
Rallyho
Mike White
http://www.facebook.com/rallyhomotorsports