Entry Fees

So I am entering a Sailboat race next weekend. You know an event with paid organizers, insurance, big club facilities to maintain, lots of equipment like 3 mark boats, clocks, race commetee boat etc.

It cost a wopping $60, it would have been $35 but I am not a member of that club.

I will be the smallest boat in the fleet but my boat still cost more than what I am selling my rally car for!

Derek

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In the long run reality always wins.

Derek is the Trophy girl that gives you the kiss when you win kicking in lot$ of cash to help keep the entry fee down?

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JohnLane

Volvo 260turbo AKA The Fire Breathing Monster
Overkill is consistently more fun

No she is not but she is good looking and has all her teeth.

I think it reflects a whole different way of financing the fun that rally has used. Remember the Commitee and staff are paid yearly wages to put on all these races and take care of questions etc durring the week.

Derek

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In the long run reality always wins.

Derek,

Good luck, or as we say in the old country "Pruvan Neta, Ruzgarin Kolayina Olsun"

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Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors

Derek,

One thing I've never had to pay for in all my twenty-eight years of sailboat racing fees I've paid is repair of the lake after the event. That's at least some part of the difference!

Kent Gardam

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yeah, i've got a six foot keel. what's it to you?

derek Wrote:
> So I am entering a Sailboat race next weekend. You
> know an event with paid organizers, insurance, big
> club facilities to maintain, lots of equipment
> like 3 mark boats, clocks, race commetee boat etc.
>
> It cost a wopping $60, it would have been $35 but
> I am not a member of that club.

I don't know that this is enough information for us to make a comment. If I said "I entered an airplane race and it only cost $50" that wouldn't help us figure out anything about rally. Please include:

-number of competitors
-number of paying spectators
-number of sponsors and their apparent level
-whether the equipment/boats is owned by the event, or the people, or the sanctioning body
-what kind of insurance they need
-do these people work year round for just this event?

Cheers,
Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Anders you are a little late to join the party.

Welcome!!

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JohnLane

Volvo 260turbo AKA The Fire Breathing Monster
Overkill is consistently more fun

John Lane Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anders you are a little late to join the party.

Well, no one gave me the super-secret invitation.


> Welcome!!

Thanks.


> Volvo 260turbo AKA The Fire Breathing Monster

Yeah, all us freaks with weirdo cars need to stick together!

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Boy you sure like digging out old threads.....
Are you going to contribute anything or just nitpick at other's posts?

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www.rallyrace.net

Skye Wrote:
> Boy you sure like digging out old threads.....

Skye, if three weeks ago is an "old thread", you have a short attention span. Is there anything about rally, the rally scene, the economics of events, that has changed in the last three weeks that would make the previous contributions to this thread now irrelevant?

> Are you going to contribute anything or just nitpick at other's posts?

First, please don't bait me, as those are not my only two options. The rules here are: "Another is to whine or bullshit incessantly without contributing either knowledge or humour to the discussion." This means I'm not required to contribute anything at all, unless I also start a lot of whining and bullshitting. *I* read the rules when I came here... did you?

Second, I am willing to contribute, and I am attempting to do so by turning what could be considered a whining thread ("Waaaah, my entry in some other sport is cheap, why is rally so expensive!"(second part of whine obviously implied, not explicitly stated) into a thread that would look at what the financial models of other sporting events are. This in turn might find us some new ideas for how to run rallies in a way that would lower the entry fees for competitors.

Third, I just finished organizing Sandblast Rally. This effort took 648 hours of work, or the equivilant of a full time job for over four months. I think that is beyond a reasonable amount of contribution to the sport and my fellow competitors. Do YOU going to contribute anything? Maybe you've been running all over the northwest as a stage captain, or a tech inspector, or helping with registration, or writing press releases for events. I don't know, I don't follow that area closesly enough to know. Tell us how you've been contributing to the sport, then we can put all that behind us, and get on with the topic of this thread, which is not you and not me, but seems to be titled "Entry Fees".

Cheers,
Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2006 06:54AM by Anders Green.

Anders Green Wrote:

Hey Anders,
I get a huge amount of shit from (it seems to me) whiney snivelling punks immature types who complain about my "tone" and I am often confused cause I don't see what I am supposed to have said that somehow hurt their sensitive 20 something feelings of self -esteem, and add to that what those who actually have SPOKEN to me say that it's quite the opposite, I take intrest and care and make much humor of all of silliness and secret desires cause I've not just seen it, I've done it before SO
with that preface I am going to say this:

I sure am confused as to what tone you are trying for here SO FAR.
Follow with:

-------------------------------------------------------
> Skye Wrote:
> > Boy you sure like digging out old
> threads.....
>
> Skye, if three weeks ago is an "old thread", you
> have a short attention span.

What's this? sounds kinda rude pointlessly.


Is there anything
> about rally, the rally scene, the economics of
> events, that has changed in the last three weeks
> that would make the previous contributions to this
> thread now irrelevant?
>
> > Are you going to contribute anything or just
> nitpick at other's posts?
>
> First, please don't bait me, as those are not my
> only two options.

Didn't seem like baiting. Unless you're LOOKING for baiting too hard maybe.

The rules here are: "Another is
> to whine or bullshit incessantly without
> contributing either knowledge or humour to the
> discussion." This means I'm not required to
> contribute anything at all, unless I also start a
> lot of whining and bullshitting. *I* read the
> rules when I came here... did you?

You actually read the rules??
Here is the rules IN CONTEXT, it is a wee bit different:
"That's not to say there aren't any rules here.
On the contrary, one sure fire way to get booted is to act consistently stupid or take personal attacks too far. Another is to whine or bullshit incessantly without contributing either knowledge or humour to the discussion. Any malicious quoting out of context..."

It is pretty simple and clear writing Anders.
There are just a few rules THAT WILL GET YOU BOOTED OFF> the sentance obviously continuing the first says "Another (and it is obviously referring to,by following immediately the operative phrase in the preceeding sentance "One sure fire way to get booted off...). I normasl speech we don't have to repeat the entire clause

But you either didn't read carefully, or for some reason chose to do the next thing we decided suck big donkey dicks "maliciously quoting out of context."

So Iam confused what tone you are trying to acheive.
But I'll tell you frankly so far it seems to be purposely pugnacious, so why?

You don't like us or something?


>
> Second, I am willing to contribute, and I am
> attempting to do so by turning what could be
> considered a whining thread ("Waaaah, my entry in
> some other sport is cheap, why is rally so
> expensive!"(second part of whine obviously
> implied, not explicitly stated) into a thread that
> would look at what the financial models of other
> sporting events are. This in turn might find us
> some new ideas for how to run rallies in a way
> that would lower the entry fees for competitors.

For a guys whose first 7-9 posts all sound like whines about folks here already, klets just say, what the fuck? you don't like their tone? Their fucking TONE???
>
> Third, I just finished organizing Sandblast Rally.
> This effort took 648 hours of work, or the
> equivilant of a full time job for over four
> months. I think that is beyond a reasonable amount
> of contribution to the sport and my fellow
> competitors.

Good for you. I'm sure a lot of people enjoyed themselves.
We ALL know what a time consuming and costly job putting on events are, as virtually everybody here has worked organizing either rallys or other, often much larger and longer events.
We all did it for very likey the same reason you did.

Do YOU going to contribute anything?

Hey Einstein:
He organised and hosts this fucking forum.
He comes over here to the Ford Asylum and willingly and cheerfully pitches in on any car here whenever anybody needs help and just stood for some hours drilling a million bloody holes in a series of power steering brackets and alternator brackets
While I was on the lathe making the other parts. Skye will get one ps and alternator bracket, thats drilling 6 holes and hole sawing 3, not 4 hours so everybody can get their brackets.


> Maybe you've been running all over the northwest
> as a stage captain, or a tech inspector, or
> helping with registration, or writing press
> releases for events. I don't know, I don't follow
> that area closesly enough to know. Tell us how
> you've been contributing to the sport, then we can
> put all that behind us, and get on with the topic
> of this thread, which is not you and not me, but
> seems to be titled "Entry Fees".

That's not the only way to contribute.
You know that.

I think you should apologize Anders, I really do.
You tone _seems_ just too fuckin haughty.

And you ARE aware that ALL you did was bitch about others and really did NOTHING to steer the conversation towards a discussion of WHY entries are stupid hig and HOW they can be lower.
Nothing.
>
> Cheers,
> Anders
>
>
> Raleigh, NC
> Impreza H6 3.0
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Mar 31, 2006 by
> Anders Green.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
> What's this? sounds kinda rude pointlessly.

Oh jeez John, is it any worse than "Are you going to contribute anything or just nitpick at other's posts?" Chill out.

Within this thread, I'm more interested in talking about the entry fee structure of other types of events, how they raise money, and what their budgets are. There was initially a glimmer of hope to learn something that could ultimately be converted into a benefit for ralliests. If anyone has details on how that happens, I'd be interested in talking about it. The sailing event seems like it could be comparable type of situation. So again, if anyone knows anything about it, I think the details I asked about would be a good starting point to figuring out that financial setup.

Cheers,
Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Clear questions get clear answers!

-number of competitors

A typical weekend race will have beetween 40 and 100 boats. Boats will have between 4 and 15 crew but the boats all pay one fee.

-number of paying spectators
None

-number of sponsors and their apparent level
None to very very little - a typical club rally has more. The club from time to time has some sponsorship. Mt Gay Rum is famous for helping put on regattas.

-whether the equipment/boats is owned by the event, or the people, or the sanctioning body
The timing equipment, race commitee boat, mark boat, marks club house etc are owned by the club putting on the event. THe sanctioning body owns nothing only provides insurance and rules.The race boats are owned by the entrents.

-what kind of insurance they need
Same as every other event, liability incase someone dies (and they do) get hurt etc and covrage for the assest like the boats. Also since there are paid emps here they need L&I insurance (Labor and Industries)

-do these people work year round for just this event? Some of the people work year round but there are races year round. Some of the people are hourly for just the event.

Derek

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In the long run reality always wins.

derek Wrote:
> A typical weekend race will have beetween 40 and
> 100 boats. Boats will have between 4 and 15 crew
> but the boats all pay one fee.

Hmm, so best case for a small event is (40x$60) $2400. As this wouldn't even cover the insurance for a small rally, I think we have to assume that their insurance costs are much, much lower than ours. Or possibly the event isn't actually financially viable, that is, the clubs put them on for their members as part of their services? There's certainly a lot less printing involved, as notes, route book, supps, and rally guide for 100 teams would be about 20,000 pages and likely about $1,600 - $2,000 for commercial printing.

So this event is actually fairly mysterious. They are paying more people and have less sponsorship and lower entry fees...

Oh, wait, I thought of some more questions: how many races each year? And in what geographic area (how long is the tow)? How many volunteers? What about prizes and awards party?

I guess rallies could be pretty cheap if:

-no road rental fees
-no road repair fees
-no printing costs
-no travel costs for the organizers (if they were already working at the yacht club)
-no stage note prep fee
-much reduced volunteer expense (buying lunch for 10 people instead of lunch, dinner, and a t-shirt for 100)


Hmmm.

Cheers,
Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Give Anders a break. He took the time this year to organize a successful event. He speaks more openly than most organizers about the real costs of putting on an event. Its a good chance to see what we as competitors can live without in order to have a reduced entry fee.

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Matt Smith

Racing in glorious black and red

My daily life is a Saab story (sold!)