Tiered entries or other ideas to lower entry costs without increasing organizer costs/risk

I thought this was an interesting post and that there were some interesting responses but I thought I would copy it here to see what happens........

Assuming that there is an end goal of increasing the number of entries at individual events and increasing the number of active licensed competitors entry fees would need to be lower. Personally, I liked tiered entry fees. It might just be socialism creeping into my mind but it seems that it could havea benefit of increasing entries into undersubsribed classes



Copied from SS.com


There's been a lot of discussion lately regarding the increasing costs of rallying in the US. There's not much discussion on the idea of making rally entry fees tiered, as apparently most of the rest of the rallying world does. In the Animal House thread, Jens proposed just making manufacturer's entry fees much higher, but I think there's other more effective implementations of tiered entry fees.

Let me make a little comparison list, based on the premise that these things would be desirable:

1. To make rallying more affordable for beginners and for those trying to rally on a budget, thereby increasing number of entries, competition, etc.

2. To decrease average speeds of the field as a whole, for the purposes of possibly lower insurance, liability, and road use fees.

No tiers (leave it as is)
Difficulty of implementation: None
Desirable effects: Cheaper rallying for those entering cheaper rallies and championships (generally local/regional).
Undesirable effects: More expensive rallying for those entering more expensive rallies and championships (generally national). It's starting to price prospective and existing budget/clubman rallyists out of the sport.

Seed-based tiers
Difficulty of implementation: low
Desirable effects: Cheaper rallying for beginners and anyone that never finishes very high.
Undesirable effects: More expensive rallying for fast drivers; Acts as a disincentive for someone to place well; Is unchangeable by the driver, i.e. if someone with a great seed decides to rally on a budget, they still have to pay high entry fees.

Class-based tiers
Difficulty of implementation: low
Desirable effects: Cheaper rallying for those who choose to race generally more affordable (to run and maintain) cars. Decreases average speeds of the field in general.
Undesirable effects: More expensive rallying for those who choose to race generally more expensive (to run and maintain) cars. Negatively affects the exceptions (people who are running a budget program in a top-class car).

Car value-based tiers
Difficulty of implementation: low to medium
Desirable effects: Cheaper rallying for those who choose to race generally more affordable (to buy) cars. Decreases average speeds of the field in general.
Undesirable effects: More expensive for those who choose to race generally more expensive (to buy) cars. Not completely accurate, as someone can spend $100,000 on building a screaming 1975 Volvo if they want to.

Championship-based tiers
Difficulty of implementation: possibly low
Desirable effects: Cheaper rallying for those who choose to only enter local/regional events.
Undesirable effects: More expensive rallying for those who choose to enter national events/championships. Similar to what we have now, but with a more pronounced difference between regional/national. Could make national championships even less meaningful, or kill them altogether.

Whew, probably a lot of mistakes and wrong assumptions, but I felt like putting a little comparison together. Please correct me, and suggest other ideas.
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Shenan

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Matt Smith

Racing in glorious black and red

My daily life is a Saab story (sold!)

I think havning a dual split like regional/national and by classes would be great. So the national open guys pay the most, but regional open guys pay less than them, and so on down the line.

The problem with this that I can see from an organizer's perspective is that they're not willing to take the risk to lower entry fees for some people, because they may not get enough of the higher cost entries to balance out the difference.

And notes should be available to national only guys! Not buying notes is an easy way that people can save $150+ off of the entry. Dual entry national/regional guys dont get notes, thats the price they pay for the extra insurance of being able to run the second day. But then that would drastically cut the number of stage notes purchased, and organizers wouldnt like that either.

I havnt read the thead on ss yet.

The pessimist in me says it's a pointless discussion. The costs of building the cars, the costs of running any series, and the diminishing road use ability is quickly going to turn US rally into more of a trust fund/big money sport than it already is. Soon it'll be cheaper to own and race a car overseas and have to buy a plane ticket a few times a year. Oh wait, it already is. Shit a rally car based out of Cancun or Mexico City could be campaigned from Denver for less than running the National Series. It'd cost less per event to fly to Finland for every single event there than to run any US series. There's tons of used cars for sale and if you can make some friends you can find somewhere to store the car hopefully for free.
Or you can just do like I am doing and get a degree that is in huge demand around the world, and can't be done by every schmuck who reads that it pays well and has alot of demand and work toward moving to a country with a better rally scene. I've already applied for a few places for internships next summer.

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Grant Hughes

As I said over on SS...

My idea is more a tenure-based tier system.

Official Version:
A system is developed in which first year rallyists see a nice discount at sign-up. The costs associated with the newbie discount are offset by a negligible increase in veteran entry fees, possibly in the range of 10-$20, depending on the number of newbie entries in the event. For illustration purposes only, consider a 25% discount on entry fees your first year in rally, a 10-15% discount in your second year, and no discount every year beyond.

Unofficial Version:
A jar on the table at registration. On it could be written the number of rookies currently pre-paid and in their first year of rallying. No names, just a number. While we're all signing away our lives and obtaining trendy wristwear, we could toss a couple bones in the jar. If you're flush this time around, you toss a tenspot in there. If you're scraping by to make it, you throw in a buck. Totally on the honor system, but allows those who really want to be generous and, personally, help grow the sport do so, while others who aren't interested can have karma co-drive for them.

Organizers then split the proceeds equally among all the first timers. The example I gave was an event with 20 entries and a $500 price tag. If there is one newbie in the group and the remaining 19 entrants toss a five-spot in the jar, the new guy gets nearly a $100 discount on his entry fee.

It would be cool if this discount could apply to as many events as a newbie could get to, but I'm thinking that, if you can afford to get the car to more than, say, four events in your first year, chances are good that you can afford to pay full price like the veterans. In this regard, I would limit this unofficial deal to no more than someone's first three or four events.

I think the jar idea would be ideal as it would demonstrate the brotherhood of our community and the level of honor among rallyists. The discount could be given to the newbie at the awards ceremony after the rally and everyone could cheer for the new guys who just ran in their first stage rally.

After having pretty much all my expenses comp'd this weekend in Prescott, I really wanted to give something back to Kris and Christine for personally paying so much just so I could give them a hand. Though I was there all weekend, I was really working no more than about four hours. Based on the hotel price alone, they basically paid me $45/hr to hang out and have a good time. Putting a "Support New Rallyists" Jar at the sign up table would see me tossing a tenspot or more at each event. I'm thinking other volunteers who are enjoying a nearly all expenses paid weekend at the rally might feel equally generous.

So, that's my brilliant idea for the day.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

I agree completely with the rookie discount and base it on coefficients.

That way it can help offset the initial "cost" of starting rally (car, safety gear, etc). When mine is done, I'll be lucky to make 2 events the first season - if entry fees were lower it would likely double the number I can attend.

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-Jason

NoCoast Wrote:
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> Or you can just do like I am doing and get a
> degree that is in huge demand around the world

Thats my new plan too. 2 more years of school for me starting next fall.