The passion makes me angry... Stage notes for all?

Work interrupted my thoughts...

I recomend not getting so stressed about notes or recky or what ever the organizers do what they can to provide them when they can and to make a fiarly fair deal for the drivers, but lets face it, there are several stages I would have won over all if not for having a car off that I had to slow down for, others where people got an advantage as I was sweeping off fresh gravel. Rally is not 100% fair - I recomend thinking about your driving your braking your pacing etc and have a good time those things are more important then notes to performance.

Now I will admit that sometimes notes do make me faster but only a little bit faster, there have been some stages I have run blind and on notes months apart and my times do not change much between the two, infact at least a few times I have driven them faster blind even if the blind run was the first time I ran the stage ever. Other stages have a lot of blind turns that notes do make me faster on by a lot as they all look like 3- but are really 3+ opens. (Oregon Trail) But let us qulify a lot is 10 seconds and I am still going 30 to 40 seconds a stage faster than most of the other 2wd cars.

So to sum up, yes try to get rally fair but understand it is not that big and issue and likely should not be a major focuse one way or another - there are a lot of things that a driver can do to go faster with or with out notes and those are more effective.

Derek

PS one more thing to think about as I am fast on blind rallys I am not as effected when I can not have my best co-driver in the car or when the co-driver is tossing cookies, or gets lost or the intercom fails etc. All of these reasons are good reasons to do a few bilind rallys to make sure you can deal with that too.

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In the long run reality always wins.

I think Derek makes some good points.
For the best driver/codriver combo, notes familiarization pass recce may yield a very small gain over Jemba notes. Most probably don't have the ability to remember the course though.

Ever see the WRC contest with Mikko where his codriver reads a few notes and Mikko has to guess the rally and which stage and he gets them all.

How well do you know your home events? When you can do that maybe recce will help. If not, it's only going to maybe help you identify things like don't cuts and camber that isn't given in Jemba.

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Grant Hughes

I see where you are coming from Derek and others. For me this sport is very driver & co-driver. So, not doing a rally with notes would be a drag for us.
I don't want it to be a huge deal. As I said - I just shut my mouth and vented to my peeps. I wanted to see what you guys thought.

I feel that sometimes this sport (USA) is being sanded down to nothing. I want it to keep moving in a positive direction. I believe that all rallies should offer stage notes. It's always been an added cost to the people running the notes so the "keeping rallies cheap" argument doesn't really work.

Well the rally master knows that the decision was the difference between me running the rally or volunteering for the rally. We move on...

"Rally with the people!"
- Kris

webkris Wrote:

Kris, don't take it bad, disagreement doesn't mean anybody thinks you're bad, its those Mid-west boys who seem to mistake any disagreement as an "ad hominem attack".
More to Seattle so you can drive up to Canada, they are a world apart from what's happening here, and I believe a main reason is because the system is still based on clubs and voluntary worker, people who are enthusiasts, raher than CEO corporate types who want to plat a little on the side at being heads of organisations.

Don't shut your mouth, argue.
But be honest, even if it makes you wince sometimes.

When several more experienced people here say the same thing "98% of everybody don't need pace notes, single pass etc, they ne4ed to drive cars that are faster and drive them faster and harder", there just might be something to it, even if the shoe pinches!
Seriously, not to be mean, but I don't see how know what's coming could be so important when you're driving a P-ish car.

I seriously believe the primary undrlying reason there's such agaitation for Notes and recce is because all the advocats have grown upo watching all this incar footage on TV.
Seriouisly.
YOUR reasoning about working as a team are true, but the motivation I say comes from this source rather than some real need.

You know some extremely far sighted crews in the early 90s started photocopying and blowing up the maps supplied in the Supplemental regs and then reading the roads off the maps, and it worked phenomonally well for just the things we need in our lower powered cars "Is that a little kink? Can I leave the gas floored?" type sutuations.


Cost of photocopying?
3-4 bucks. vs the insane 7-9 THOUSAND dollars it allegeded "costs" to prepare notes.

ANd believe me we worked togeter using maps.-------------------------------------------------------
> I see where you are coming from Derek and others.
> For me this sport is very driver & co-driver.
> So, not doing a rally with notes would be a drag
> for us.
> I don't want it to be a huge deal. As I said - I
> just shut my mouth and vented to my peeps. I
> wanted to see what you guys thought.
>
> I feel that sometimes this sport (USA) is being
> sanded down to nothing. I want it to keep moving
> in a positive direction. I believe that all
> rallies should offer stage notes. It's always been
> an added cost to the people running the notes so
> the "keeping rallies cheap" argument doesn't
> really work.
>
> Well the rally master knows that the decision was
> the difference between me running the rally or
> volunteering for the rally. We move on...
>
> "Rally with the people!"
> - Kris

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't shut your mouth, argue.
> But be honest, even if it makes you wince
> sometimes.

Harumph!


"The fellow that agrees with everything you say is either a fool or he is getting ready to skin you." - Kin Hubbard

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>I blame Edstrom for empowering
>America's ballast.

Haha. Thanks.

For the record, I am of the belief that everyone, regardless of experience, should be able to use Jemba notes or recce'd pacenotes, if the organizer provides them.

I am likewise convinced that all rallies need to provide notes. I wouldn't likely go to an event that didn't have notes at this point, but I trust that organizers can weigh the positives and negatives of offering organizer notes or recce.

As Ted says, we ran rallies blind before, and we lived. It wasn't nearly as much fun, in my mind, but then I'm not the one risking my money to put on a rally.

Oh, Kris - if you want to send a joint letter to Rally America suggesting a change to allow notes for all, I'm happy to lend my support in any way you want.

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Christian Edstrom
New York, NY
Age: 30



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2007 06:26PM by bjorn240.

I never gave my notes to anybody, ever, neither did I allow people to fhotocopy them, never ever.

Am I a jerk ?? Yes. Am I selfish ? Hardly.

Here is the reason why I never share pace notes, they are mine, they are written the same exact way they will come out of my mouth, I know what the little coma or dot or smudge means. I usually remember the reference points (reperes as I call them) on my notes and verify things as we shoot down the stages.

At the Del Sur turnaround of RIM '06 Honkkanen had a good laugh at my notes, I had descriptive notes in Turkish written on top of Jemba notes. Not surprising, he was able to read and understand 75% of my old school notes. The other 25% is what makes things very dangerous when someone tries to read pace notes prepared but someone else.

My 0.035 YTL

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Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors

Hey Moose,

Isnt sharing notes quite common at Pro level. I recall Serkan Yazici sharing some notes for Rally of Turkey with another top level foreign Ford guy or something (The guy wasnt able to recce or make it there on time or whatever it was)
Than again those guys make sense with their notes and have lotsa experience with em. No computer generated BS

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rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

Not really.

If I remember correctly, they had a gravel crew preparing their pacenotes. Those notes are pretty standard for those drivers so there wouldn't be any gray areas. OTOH, even in my Marlboro/Mitsubishi days I prepared my own notes, I felt a lot more comfortable with what I wrote the way I saw.

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Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors

>
>
>
> Cheers
> M.Samli
> Phoenix AZ
> Gaylant VR4
> EVO II GSR
>
>
> Rallies are no place for traitors

Hey MR Mustafa,
I need a Turkish lawyer to write a nasty letter to a ebay scammer.
Please contact.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Oh shit you called me Mr. this must be serious. I'll call you tomorow.

---

Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors