RWD????????

hey guys,
this is my first post one rallyanarchy ... and hopefully not my last.

I have been trying to get into rally for sometime now, and was a volunteer worker at Sandblast rally in cheraw, SC this past year.


******ive been searching around to see where i should start (im sure you get the "what is a good newbie car" question alot) but i just want to hear your guys opinion on RWD cars. i know its not ideal. ive pretty much got my mind set on what car i want to get if i go FWD, but im just a rwd guy . *********

(for exp. BMW e30, 240sx , datsun ... etc)

this is going to be my learner car, and will hopefully upgrader to a awd, or something turbo down the road.

thanks guys

depape Wrote:
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>i just
> want to hear your guys opinion on RWD cars.

It's what you drive if you want to enjoy yourself.

>i know
> its not ideal.

LIAR !!!

> this is going to be my learner car, and will
> hopefully upgrader to a awd, or something turbo
> down the road.

Turbos suck, AWD sucks, keep it rear!

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

The Joy of Rear Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeel Drive.

I've driven AWD and FWD. RWD is like the art of rally driving. Sooooo satisfying. Feeling the car move and come in and out of traction as it works the road and every curve is a totally unique experience for the senses. It makes FWD and AWD feel like road racing. RWD is true rally.

Loads of guys are changing to RWD.

I'm sure JV will pop in with some technical stuff.

so starting w/ a rwd car is good ...(more challenging but itll teach me more..)

if i get enough people to tell me its ok, then hell.... id be more than happy to take rwd over fwd n awd...


thanks so far guys
anyone else have an opinion??

depape Wrote:
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> so starting w/ a rwd car is good ...(more
> challenging but itll teach me more..)
>
> if i get enough people to tell me its ok, then
> hell.... id be more than happy to take rwd over
> fwd n awd...
>
>
> thanks so far guys
> anyone else have an opinion??

Yeah but its late and you can just search my name a read up.
Get a 240 Volvo or a Merkur Xr4ti, there si a cage shell available done already in North Bend.
Too late to write more now.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

So where are you located? I was at Sandblast this year, sadly without a rally car.

I have driven rwd and fwd. Granted fwd only at a few rallyx's. I think that it takes more skill to drive rwd very well than fwd. when it works rwd is the most satisfying experience I can imageine. Think surfing ther perfect wave or insert your prefered comparison to moving in harmony with the environment.

Don't yell John but I think that a good rwd starter car would be an early '80s toyota or such. The xr is great but.

---

Matt Smith

Racing in glorious black and red

My daily life is a Saab story (sold!)

ya i think i wanna do a rwd car then, but im not liking the merkur or volvo ... sry,

what about an e30 bme 325is?? , or some rwd nissan, or mr2 ??? anyone have any suggestions for other rwd rally cars??

thanx for the help mothra n jv

I have driven RWD, AWD and FWD rally cars in anger down stages. There is nothing wrong with RWD at all, on some stages is is faster then FWD on others the FWD will be faster.

The only possibe down side, if you change to AWD some time in the future, FWD is a better learning platform for that, but that is a minor point.

Mr2? Are you nuts? Bowel Movment Wonders are sometimes made into good rally cars but not often and at a fair bit of expence. From your list Nissan is the direction I would go. Anything can be a good rally car if you spend lots of money and effort to make it good though.

If you take a look at the fastest stage times on say the classic Brooklyn Tavern Stage you will see a FWD car has never managed to get even close to the RWD cars and you will also see that no Subie has ever managed to be faster then some of the RWD Volvos on the stage, so I really do not get the argument that FWD is faster.
http://doowoprally.com/brooklyn.html
For another data point, in the about 2003 or 04 Wild West Rally Mr. Fuller driving the very best FWD car ever seen in the US, a full complete VW kit car that was used to win the Asia Pacific Cup, we are talking the real deal here VW was selling these for about $240,000 in the mid 1990's... manged to be just a few seconds faster over the whole rally then 2 home grown RWD volvos driven by Mr. Street and Mr. Lane. So where is it writen that RWD is not competive?

You may also wish to take a second to ponder that the cars you wish to build have never made these lists, based on results one would have strong evidance to build a Volvo, but really it not mater than much just go have fun.

---

In the long run reality always wins.

I've recently finished building, wrecking, and re-building a Nissan 240SX rally car. JVL should be able to make you suspension pretty easily :-)

No matter what you build it will be lots of work. More work with a car that isn't popular as you have to do it all from scratch. Search for posts from me and you'll find some pictures. Ask me any questions you want.

-Martin.

i really like the idea of the 240sx

but im also a german car guy (i have a 944 turbo s, and bmw 3series)
so are there any e30 rally guys around here??

- what are all my options with volvos....

(and if i go fwd its gunna be the sentra or corrado.)

Here's a vote against a corrado - They are fundamentally the same as a MKII/MKIII golf but are heavier and have horrible head clearance. my head brushed the roof with the seat layed back and no helmet on

---

-Jason

well we can discuss the corrado later, right now im trying to decide on a rwd rally car.

and for some reason im leaning towards a 240sx or an e30 325......

depape Wrote:
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> i really like the idea of the 240sx

240Sx obvisously can be made to work, BUT!!!

* How much would a starter car cost?

*How many are in the Rally Spare Parts Storage Facility, commonly known as "junk yards"

* how much would a suitable motor cost? (rather than the slugloid KA24DE pick up lump which is lackluster stock and horribly undersquare?)

*Know what an alternate Nissan ring and pinion costs?? YIKES!
>
> but im also a german car guy (i have a 944 turbo
> s, and bmw 3series)
> so are there any e30 rally guys around here??

No offense to you but BMW E30, while looking good on basic dimensions etc, are about 2 steps smaller in component size than nearly anything in the size and weight and power.
They are also extremely travel limited in the back, and that's not good on a gravel rwd car, and with the IRS you can't just slap on longer dampers, cuse of BAD geometry problems AND half shaft length problems.
Keep the E30 as an asphalt thang, or be prepared for LOTS of swapping to larger parts like the 262 Getrag------and then pay 4-7 times what the same parts should cost for something thats a bit more correctly sized in the first place.
>
> - what are all my options with volvos....
Cheap.
PLENTIFUL both on the street and in the Rally Car Spare Parts Storage facilities
(11 240s last I visited Lynwood Pull-a-Part, ZERO 240s, 1 E30, 1 Xratty)
>
> (and if i go fwd its gunna be the sentra or
> corrado.)
Hold on, what am i seeing? Corrado is merely silly, rare, and expensive sheet metal tacked onto a Golf floor, only with very shitty outward visibility. ( I just at Thanksgiving did a G-lader motor for one of our Xrtty boys, this site's owner/administrator.
Word of serious advice here:
Do Not get sucked in by pretty styling exercises like say Corrado, Scirrocco, Eclipse, MR2, Fieros, and sports cars.
There are always too many compromises that'll bitr you in the ass later from packaging and access and service point of view.

Another thing is to think of cars that have been successful at the highest level possible, preferably at WRC level, and see what was the key elements to that success and what you can copy, cuase really, it ain't the build which is the point, its the driving.

By the way, my liking of the Xratty over the Volvo is specifically the ability to progressively upgrade the car from a very good starter car (nearly perfect size and very GOOD STOCK STEERING at 2.6 turns lock to lock) with excellent balance and handling from Ford SOHC 2300 power IF YOU WANT to
YB Cosworth 2.0 16 v motor and then IF YOU WANT to pretty good and affordable 4WD drivetrain.
That's what I did on mine:


There really isn't another car you can progressively do this that is at all competitive in its non-4wd form.

And on the other hand, you might just find that its more than enough fun at a simpler spec, lots of guys have found that out after they did the turbo 4wd thang.

We should talk and maybe you come visit and look at Volvo and ford stuff.
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

depape Wrote:
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> but im also a german car guy (i have a 944 turbo
> s, and bmw 3series)
> so are there any e30 rally guys around here??
>

And where do you think the xr4ti was built? One hint its Germany. Not that I am pushing the xr its not for everyone.

---

Matt Smith

Racing in glorious black and red

My daily life is a Saab story (sold!)

Hey depape

It's best if you don't like the car you decide to rally. Right now I have an RX7 and everyday I tell it it'll never be as cool as a Porsche or a Zcar. I emotionaly abuse that no soul piece of tin. I have no respect for it. That's why I beat the crap out of it on stage. All cars are pieces of junk.

It's a right of passage to get the right advice and disregard it and build whatever you want. But I gotta warn you. Don't think of your rally car like you think of your favorite car. You are going to do awful things to this car.

If I had to do it all over again. I'd build an XR. Ugly as all heck but JV is right, they will perform and are great rallycars.