Some good video

http://www.rallyteampaimio.com/videot/K1sprintneva2k.wmv

Trucks are lame rally cars. But so are Neons. That doesn't mean I hold it against anyone rallying one.

There was a stage at 100AW where we drove for literally a mile or two down a creek bed. You want to see rough and baby heads. There was another stage that every codriver on notes hated (and most got lost on) and was considered by most drivers to probably was actually a 4 wheeler road. And was stupidly narrow. They took all those out though the past couple years for some reason.

A friend once said, Gorman was basically a car and codriver killer it was so stupidly rough that it was a waste of time and not to ever bother going.

2nd overall in that field (Desert Storm) doesn't indicate that trucks are any better suited for rally. Just shows that he drove the piss out of that one. I've got multiple first place overall wins as a codriver. Does that make me the best codriver in the world?

The PNW is well known to have the best rallyists in the United States, by their standards, and they also tend to not travel much out of the PNW. Why the fuck would you when there's like 8 events within 2-3 hours of your house?

Rally always comes down to money.

Anyhow, I wanted to post a good video after watching some fairly boring US based videos recently. How hard do you think it would be to pick tires for that event? That is a Starlet. Let's play a little game. What is blaringly different from most US based rally in car video we see. I'll start.

Real close ratio sounding gearbox.

---

Grant Hughes

Spectators?

Frequent corners?

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> The PNW is well known to have the best rallyists
> in the United States, by their standards, and they
> also tend to not travel much out of the PNW. Why
> the fuck would you when there's like 8 events
> within 2-3 hours of your house?

I'm hoping they all show up for Oregon Trail since I'll be there.

I gotta press you further on this one Grant. Who are they, what are their standards. I would contests that there are many unknown teams in each region that are very talent that are not known well on a national level. Not sure which area
has the most because I haven't been outside my region on a consistent basis. As for my perspective on rally issues I'm too damn busy trying to get that last bolt out of the back seat of my P car since so it can be a G2 car cause that's how we roll in the lake states.

>
> Rally always comes down to money.
>
> Anyhow, I wanted to post a good video after
> watching some fairly boring US based videos
> recently. How hard do you think it would be to
> pick tires for that event? That is a Starlet.
> Let's play a little game. What is blaringly
> different from most US based rally in car video we
> see. I'll start.
>
> Real close ratio sounding gearbox.
>

What I took away from it was just how curvy the road seemed and how much better the driving was compared to lots of my incar stuff and others I've seen. Twisty technical roads put more focus on the driving and if your car is set up nicely you'll it's just up to the driver.

Gotta mention the near flawless run through the stage too. Car control for such a short wheelbase was awesome. Also noted the SISU over the crests.

I also noticed a ton of heavy ditchhooking. Spec Forestry roads will allow that as will spec town roads. Maybe these guys made notes, maybe not. Maybe it's local areas with much exposed bedrock but that road surface is really built up in spots.

Overall the road infrastructure seems very well taken care of in all the Scandanavian videos I see. This indicates heavy use and long term planning in their forests. Of course they encountered scarcity in their forest resource sooner than us but they are where they are and we are where we are in terms of forestry practices. Sometimes we find ourselves still rallying on a nice rocky, unditched dozer scratched trail into the woods, which I don't mind by the way.

But Holy Smokes! It's the car that stands out the most. It's a 2wd that totally hooks up off the start and it's high powered and he can totally stand on the gas in the corners. It's very different than almost any car over here.

Now where are you going with this Grant? Your initial post sounded like you were a bit less focused than normal. It seemed very reflective too. Are you being the teacher and asking you class to think about it? Do you want us to ask why we don't have more cars like that over here? I think that it, as well as the fact that PNW guys think they have the great drivers, boils down to one dang thing which I lament on a daily basis. That frickin' manifest destiny idea and human greed.

Now I must reflect. What if that frickin' manifest destiny idea never existed because there was less greed? Would it be better if you guys were in a different country? For the sake of rally, but not of relationships, I say yes.

If NA were composed of more and smaller countries would rally be any more popular here? It could be. A regional championship would be a national championship. That's one reason. Is there a chance that we would have broader participation in all our classes then? I think we would.

Also, the rush to move west made for lots of rail travel. Many areas that could have been nicely peopled at a reasonable rate of sprawl just got passed over. If growth were slow the roads, might, they just might have been made curvier with less of a hurry to go straight west.

Also after a while the GLO survey became a route for roads. If more land were measured with meets and bounds instead of by a huge survey the roads, again would be curvier, even when there wasn't exposed bedrock or water to go around.

But the more I think of it, NA is like a geographical timeline itself. How fast could a continent fill itself up with a dense population? It was technology that fueled expansion, right?

Grant is this what you wanted, you dang Doctor, Mr. Smarypants. Why do you have to mess with me like this? You are always trying to get me to think about cool Group F cars and stuff. Don't you know I'm still in treatment for the Hemangio endothelioma? My brain is not the same after all that chemo plus they are still aiming that dang radiation death ray at my "superior pelvic area". Why are you picking on the sick kid?



> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

sauna rocks Wrote:
> But Holy Smokes! It's the car that stands out the
> most. It's a 2wd that totally hooks up off the
> start and it's high powered and he can totally
> stand on the gas in the corners. It's very
> different than almost any car over here.

That might be the short wheelbase talking (instant and heavy load transfer), kinda the same reason the import drag racers like Starlets so much.

Their suspension... woah. If they're using 4 links, then I want to see their geometry. Stuff like sliding the back end into a ditch on the outside of a corner and back out again and the rear tires never leave the ground. I didn't think a 4 link could do that, and what are they using for driveshafts that they can get that much travel?

Yes, me wantee.

> Also, the rush to move west made for lots of rail
> travel. Many areas that could have been nicely
> peopled at a reasonable rate of sprawl just got
> passed over. If growth were slow the roads,
> might, they just might have been made curvier with
> less of a hurry to go straight west.

I think that is all just geography. Most of this country is a billiards table. On the other hand, I spent some time in northern KY trying to follow some of the locals around some of their roads. Barely-2-lane-wide roads scratched into the sides of rockey hills, with lots of rapid elevation change, crests sharp enough to get air, switchbacks, hairpins, etc. Their roads are NOT on grids like in farm country because the geography says it can't happen. The railrods just run on huge bridges that touch land every now and then.

I might move.

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Pete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sauna rocks Wrote:
> > But Holy Smokes! It's the car that stands
> out the
> > most. It's a 2wd that totally hooks up off
> the
> > start and it's high powered and he can
> totally
> > stand on the gas in the corners. It's very
> > different than almost any car over here.
>
> That might be the short wheelbase talking (instant
> and heavy load transfer), kinda the same reason
> the import drag racers like Starlets so much.
>
> Their suspension... woah. If they're using 4
> links, then I want to see their geometry. Stuff
> like sliding the back end into a ditch on the
> outside of a corner and back out again and the
> rear tires never leave the ground. I didn't think
> a 4 link could do that, and what are they using
> for driveshafts that they can get that much
> travel?
>
> Yes, me wantee

And the guy driving is good enough to keep it all smooth even though things happen lightning quick with that short of a wheelbase. I used to drive a Suzuki Swift GT. That thing was a blast but that short of a wheelbase really made me stay on my toes keeping it smoothe.

>
> > Also, the rush to move west made for lots of
> rail
> > travel. Many areas that could have been
> nicely
> > peopled at a reasonable rate of sprawl just
> got
> > passed over. If growth were slow the roads,
> > might, they just might have been made curvier
> with
> > less of a hurry to go straight west.
>
> I think that is all just geography. Most of this
> country is a billiards table. On the other hand,
> I spent some time in northern KY trying to follow
> some of the locals around some of their roads.
> Barely-2-lane-wide roads scratched into the sides
> of rockey hills, with lots of rapid elevation
> change, crests sharp enough to get air,
> switchbacks, hairpins, etc. Their roads are NOT
> on grids like in farm country because the
> geography says it can't happen. The railrods just
> run on huge bridges that touch land every now and
> then.
>
> I might move.
>
>

I think you are right about the lay of the land and embedded rock and such playing the largest part. However I think a minor part is played by technology of the times. And wider, straighter roads are considered safer and if you've got the means of moving lots of earth corners are definitely minimized. Corners are becoming outdated.

I hope more people reply to this post. It's been semi threadjacked. Skye is going to put a dork forum in here for dorky stuff like I wrote last night.


>
> Pete Remner
> Cleveland, Ohio
> 1985 RX-7 rallycross rustbucket/experimentation
> thingus
> 1984 RX-7 reshell
> 1978

I think one thing, it is non turbo, instant responce no leg so in the turn need more rotation blip the power and round she comes.

Good travel for sure - very nice to have.

All and all I could see driving to that pace - might take some practice but not out of reach - unlike say Toni in his M3 on the first stage where he basically puts the hammer down and leaves it there.

---

In the long run reality always wins.

sauna rocks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you are right about the lay of the land
> and embedded rock and such playing the largest
> part. However I think a minor part is played by
> technology of the times. And wider, straighter
> roads are considered safer and if you've got the
> means of moving lots of earth corners are
> definitely minimized. Corners are becoming
> outdated.
>
> I hope more people reply to this post. It's been
> semi threadjacked. Skye is going to put a dork
> forum in here for dorky stuff like I wrote last
> night.


Well I have a lot to say about this.. it will be a fair bit of wankering, however I was born into construction so I might have some idea of what I'm talking about.

1) Geography plays a large part. Scandinavia and Newfoundland (not sure if you've ever been) were once one piece of land.. and building straight roads in Newfoundland is extremely expensive and not very practical.

2) About your corners being obsolete comment, moving large amounts of dirt let alone rock is EXTREMELY expensive. It makes sense to go through the expenditure of "flattening" the land if the road is a highway, otherwise Geography will govern, but most of North America is flat anyways, not so much the case over in Europe

4) Basically all of Europe was settled long before surveying was around in any large organized fashion. Most of North America was settled with surveying. St. John's Newfoundland looks like the roads were laid out by a "if the cow walked there, we'll make a road" mentality where as newer cities such as Toronto, Calgary, etc are all grids.

5) As my dad would say North America in general suffers from a lack of buggers per square inch. Europe has that in spades.. it will always make many niches much more viable. If 10% of either population is into a particular thing, whatever niche will be 10x more viable in Europe.

6) I agree that the sheer size of Canada and America will make sure there is never a big National Rally scene.. I don't understand why people keep bringing it up. It's absolutely fucking ridiculous (My Opinion). I also don't understand why a regional championship has to be so much less prestigious than a National one, hey if it's a hot bed it's a hot bed.

Edit:/ I lost point 3.. hey I'm drunk

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2007 11:53PM by hudson.