diff strengthing

How come you dont see full floater 9" fords or quick changes in rally cars? 9" fords are repopped in whatever width you want many different hub styles. Axles are resonable around $50. All major diff companies make lsd's,spools for them.

A quick google search shows a new 9"ford floater for $550 with floater hubs axles and 2 piece rotors You would still have to buy a gear.

---

First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

So how would I widen the front, or would it really matter I measured an older toy axle at the salvage yard today , a little shorter , right around 50 or so compared to 54 on my 93 I wasn't getting under it , the rim jacks stands weren't to my liking under that biotch ...not gonna push my luck.

i would say the toyota van an pick-up 7.5 is about 54" wide

as to widening the front look to afco for longer control arms and new strut rods
buy some camber plates

---

I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

Quote
Reamer
How come you dont see full floater 9" fords or quick changes in rally cars? 9" fords are repopped in whatever width you want many different hub styles. Axles are resonable around $50. All major diff companies make lsd's,spools for them.

A quick google search shows a new 9"ford floater for $550 with floater hubs axles and 2 piece rotors You would still have to buy a gear.

My just guess would be weight,unsprung weight. There are a bunch of possibilities but they are all overkill for clubman rally. Offroad types have all kinds of options but hey are dealing with 2x-3x the vehicle weight and power.

i believe curry will make a full floater out of most any rear axle
7.5 or 8" would be the best strength to weight for the power of your car

a 9" is heavy and will suck some power

---

I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

I guess I'll leave it for now , get thru my first rally , I'll probably just leave the 3k that's in it now as well , get the car set up and see how I drive in a real rally , who cares how slow I am I can only drive as fast as my experience will let me anyway, I just wanna have fun and enjoy the dirt! ,I can at least figure out what needs to be done in the future..

No resistance John. Just looking it in a different way, with KISS being more emphasized as one gets started. Some guys come into racing with a lot of tools and mechnical experience, others don't. Sending the latter down the road of a lot of upfront work to 'optimize' will ususally badly side track them from getting on stage; it's the old case of 'better being the enemy of good enough'. I don't know the OP's expereince level, etc., so can only offer the why and let him decide.

do the basic stuff first, with the end in mind of course

put in a cage good suspension and brakes bash plates and rally it

then look to beefy axles big horse power and the like

---

I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

Gearing short enough to get the car out of its own way is a basic part of a rally car and a thing which is in many ways defines a rally car.

You old farts have forgotten how central short gearing is.

I haven't said a word about upping engine power but I will not just say "like...........whatever"

The biggest error that 99.784% of all beginners do is fail to understand braking's central roll and listen to silly chil;dren who like a greekk fuck chorous drone "try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners .

Bullshit.

They and others repeat this try and maintain momentum thru the corners bullshit because they never got a level where they understood what the Number ONE skill to learn which is braking (for decell).

Beginners get things wrong-----and we are all beginners in terms of hours.

What happens when a beginner gets this try and maintain momentum thru the corners bullshit wrong?

He crashes on the outside. Thru a ditch, maybe into an embankment, maybe into a tree...

Then, no practice for X months while repairing and a wariness.

If he had shorter axle ratio and thought about BRAKING---what happens if he gets that wrong and he braked a little too early, or too hard and scrubs some speed off?

He initiates, floors it in a safe straight line and he is soon back up to speed and learns that acceleration is the one half of things, decel the other, and the "try and maintain momentum thru the corners" is bullshit for the beginner.
Proper (as near as you can) short gearing so the mpg grocery getter is made into a semblance of a rally car---so the car begins to act like one.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Gearing short enough to get the car out of its own way is a basic part of a rally car and a thing which is in many ways defines a rally car.

You old farts have forgotten how central short gearing is.

I haven't said a word about upping engine power but I will not just say "like...........whatever"

The biggest error that 99.784% of all beginners do is fail to understand braking's central roll and listen to silly chil;dren who like a greekk fuck chorous drone "try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners .

Bullshit.

They and others repeat this try and maintain momentum thru the corners bullshit because they never got a level where they understood what the Number ONE skill to learn which is braking (for decell).

Beginners get things wrong-----and we are all beginners in terms of hours.

What happens when a beginner gets this try and maintain momentum thru the corners bullshit wrong?

He crashes on the outside. Thru a ditch, maybe into an embankment, maybe into a tree...

Then, no practice for X months while repairing and a wariness.

If he had shorter axle ratio and thought about BRAKING---what happens if he gets that wrong and he braked a little too early, or too hard and scrubs some speed off?

He initiates, floors it in a safe straight line and he is soon back up to speed and learns that acceleration is the one half of things, decel the other, and the "try and maintain momentum thru the corners" is bullshit for the beginner.
Proper (as near as you can) short gearing so the mpg grocery getter is made into a semblance of a rally car---so the car begins to act like one.

This is the corollary to the classic statement about drag racers: "Any asshole can go fast in a straight line." You figure out the "any asshole" parts first, then work up your cornering speed. AMIRITE?

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Quote
fiasco

Quote
john vanlandingham
Gearing short enough to get the car out of its own way is a basic part of a rally car and a thing which is in many ways defines a rally car.

You old farts have forgotten how central short gearing is.

I haven't said a word about upping engine power but I will not just say "like...........whatever"

The biggest error that 99.784% of all beginners do is fail to understand braking's central roll and listen to silly chil;dren who like a greekk fuck chorous drone "try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners try and maintain momentum thru the corners .

Bullshit.

They and others repeat this try and maintain momentum thru the corners bullshit because they never got a level where they understood what the Number ONE skill to learn which is braking (for decell).

Beginners get things wrong-----and we are all beginners in terms of hours.

What happens when a beginner gets this try and maintain momentum thru the corners bullshit wrong?

He crashes on the outside. Thru a ditch, maybe into an embankment, maybe into a tree...

Then, no practice for X months while repairing and a wariness.

If he had shorter axle ratio and thought about BRAKING---what happens if he gets that wrong and he braked a little too early, or too hard and scrubs some speed off?

He initiates, floors it in a safe straight line and he is soon back up to speed and learns that acceleration is the one half of things, decel the other, and the "try and maintain momentum thru the corners" is bullshit for the beginner.
Proper (as near as you can) short gearing so the mpg grocery getter is made into a semblance of a rally car---so the car begins to act like one.

This is the corollary to the classic statement about drag racers: "Any asshole can go fast in a straight line." You figure out the "any asshole" parts first, then work up your cornering speed. AMIRITE?

Yep.

One of those other stupid thing repeated endlessly as a "social marker" ONLY in North America is "It's not a drag race between corners"..

When I have been in some countries where there are B drivers who are quicker than Ben Klock and the subject of "why is rally not popular/not fast in America?" inevitably I say there are all these odd "truisms" thrown around by old guys--and repeated by noobular guys who want to 'fit in' and that one thing is the "try and maintain momentum thru the corners" bullshit and another is it isn't a drag race between corners"..
The UNIVERSAL response is "Wha????"
I repeat it and they always bug their eyes and say "Wot Da FAWK! It's a drag race between corners!!!"

Think about it. WE are all supposed to be learning to drive a RALLY CAR.
We know how to drive MPG oriented grocery getters.
What we need to do eventually is control a car that is QUICK...
You can make a car quicker with a more bitchiner motor.
Costs money, even for an old POS like a Lima---you know what it cost 15 years ago...

Or..........................shorten gearing and presto the car accelerates and the noob can begin learning that sooner.
The sooner the better...
It is still his foot on the gas, its not uncontrolable...

Andrew, you know me, I am steeped in production, industrial manufacturing where you have a) machines that do operations, and machine operators who DO ONE THING, one step and do it perfect, the the part goes to the next stage and another guy does ONE THING WELL, then thru the whole process and in the end you have a complicated machine.


I learned that other trade, the one I devoted 10 serious hard years learning and it was when I broke it down into simple discreet steps that I began to master it well enough to make a living--a pretty good living, approx 6 times what I made as a machinist...My principle became:
DO ONE THING WELL.
Basically:
GAS IT!!!! (that was FULL throttle)
BRAKE!!!!!!
Initiate...

Repeat..

And I practiced those discreet steps---even when I was getting paid pretty good---because at that level I still needed to practice, to hone things..

As far as I can see, nobody practices discreet elements since evidently they are all doing gas it, braking, and initiating perfectly enough that no practicing would improve it.....

So they think about stuff like "try and maintain momentum thru the corners" , and "the indispensability of left FOOT BRAKING.."

(the work up the safe cornering speed is done in practice sessions not during events.)

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Bullshit.
They and others repeat this try and maintain momentum thru the corners bullshit because they never got a level where they understood what the Number ONE skill to learn which is braking (for decell).
Beginners get things wrong-----and we are all beginners in terms of hours.
What happens when a beginner gets this try and maintain momentum thru the corners bullshit wrong?
He crashes on the outside. Thru a ditch, maybe into an embankment, maybe into a tree...
Then, no practice for X months while repairing and a wariness.

I can honestly say I've seen more cars go off because they locked up the fronts and could no longer steer around the corner. Brake later, brake harder is almost certainly a cause of more offs than maintaining momentum.(which is much more about the line driven and the slip angle it's driven with than it is anything else.)

Quote
john vanlandingham
If he had shorter axle ratio and thought about BRAKING---what happens if he gets that wrong and he braked a little too early, or too hard and scrubs some speed off?

You make it sound like you can't have both. Conservation of momentum is independent of what you're driving and if you come out of a corner with more speed, you'll be faster, quicker in the same car. It isn't either/or.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
Morison

Quote
john vanlandingham
Bullshit.
They and others repeat this try and maintain momentum thru the corners bullshit because they never got a level where they understood what the Number ONE skill to learn which is braking (for decell).
Beginners get things wrong-----and we are all beginners in terms of hours.
What happens when a beginner gets this try and maintain momentum thru the corners bullshit wrong?
He crashes on the outside. Thru a ditch, maybe into an embankment, maybe into a tree...
Then, no practice for X months while repairing and a wariness.

I can honestly say I've seen more cars go off because they locked up the fronts and could no longer steer around the corner. Brake later, brake harder is almost certainly a cause of more offs than maintaining momentum.(which is much more about the line driven and the slip angle it's driven with than it is anything else.)

Quote
john vanlandingham
If he had shorter axle ratio and thought about BRAKING---what happens if he gets that wrong and he braked a little too early, or too hard and scrubs some speed off?

You make it sound like you can't have both. Conservation of momentum is independent of what you're driving and if you come out of a corner with more speed, you'll be faster, quicker in the same car. It isn't either/or.

No I don't. Don't fuck up this thread with your embarrassing and always wrong letter-by-letter parsing and your patented missing the point.

I said CONCENTRATE ON DOING FIRST THINGS FIRST.
And DO ONE THING WELL.
Which is related to "BE HERE NOW".

If you did not catch that then the problem is 100% with you..

Might explain why you always miss the point so often, so widely.

This thread is about things that is beyond your skills set and understanding, do not fuck it up with your arguing.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

FIRST THINGS FIRST.

Google "Skip Barber Going Faster video". Yes it's road racing stuff, but they have made thousands of people suck less behind the wheel.

The FIRST bit of "instruction" shows coming harder out of a turn earlier gets you more speed down the straightaway. Next they show that you get on the brakes later. Then on a circuit course (in general), you put together the most important turns as the ones preceding the longest straightaways.

So first, you maximize your time with the right pedal floor matted on the straightaway, then you learn to make your braking short and sweet, then you figure out which turns you need to attack most, THEN figure out the carrying speed through the turns bit.

Most of us pansies are still having trouble with the first step of keeping the right foot down. In my extremely limited competition driving experience, there is a part of the NH Motor Speedway road course that is blind, that I KNOW I can keep my foot planted for an extra second and a half, but 98 out of 100 laps, I feather the throttle because I can't see, even though I know what's on the other side (with the exception of the possibility of a stalled 76 Gremlin). So I'm still working on that first step.

I'm actually better in the late braking department, but still not great or even good.

Meh. I'll come argue more later.

My braking explanation was ass-backwards so I edited it.

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2013 02:38PM by fiasco.

For my money we should learn to brake in a straight line, brake hard. Worry about staying tight inside and then keeping the car attitude correct to accelerate out. There is an absolute speed a car can keep before jumping off a corner. Many guys do sldie off under braking, that is a training thing, not a flawed 'policy'. Probably most of those guys could have saved it by getting off the brakes and driving. car placement is also critical and being on the outside is flat foolish unless you're on dry tarmac. I'm with JV on this one. Braking isn't what he is saying...learning to brake correctly is .

Maintaining speed is important when you master the braking and acceleration skills first. Shouldn't be the other way around...disaster awaits that formula.