medium-locking rear diff on gravel

If anyone has driven on gravel in an AWD with both a medium-locking rear diff, such as a Cusco RS, and a hard-locking rear diff, such as a Cusco MZ, please tell me how much worse the former was. If it makes a diff (as it were), I'm particular interested in this question when the center is a hard-locking active and the front is a helical. Thanks.

Just drive the car and quit jerking off dreaming that it makes any difference what parts you put in...

fucking auto-crossers, every one the world champion of " is this better than...does this diff make my butt look fat?"
For driving in a parking lot..

Just drive.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Thanks for the advice. I will weight it appropriately.

Now fuck off if you aren't interesting in answering the question.

i have driven awd cars with form of lsd on any diff, it was ok but overall sucked,
4wd car with no lsd, ok once i got the feel for it,
4wd car with no front lsd and a stock 75%ish lsd in the rear best of the bunch

but the awd with a viscous center and a viscous rear(stock) was the best to date

i think its a matter of personal choice and driving style
a bit of give in the center does help on turn in and then powering out of the corner

i do plan to try a week lsd(less than 50%) in the front, for the cash a phantom grip might be a way to go

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

Quote
tdrrally
i have driven awd cars with form of lsd on any diff, it was ok but overall sucked,
4wd car with no lsd, ok once i got the feel for it,
4wd car with no front lsd and a stock 75%ish lsd in the rear best of the bunch

but the awd with a viscous center and a viscous rear(stock) was the best to date

i think its a matter of personal choice and driving style
a bit of give in the center does help on turn in and then powering out of the corner

i do plan to try a week lsd(less than 50%) in the front, for the cash a phantom grip might be a way to go

The only thing Phantom about Phantom Grip is wondering where your money went.
It is beyond a poor joke, it is unethical and dishonest that crap is still around. It is a triumph of advertising over reality...If it was $35 it would be cheap junk, but it isn't $35 so it's just junk.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Iowa999
Thanks for the advice. I will weight it appropriately.

Now fuck off if you aren't interesting in answering the question.

No autocrosser, why waste space with more of your looking for affirmation of a decision you have already made?

The car is multiple factors better than anything you, a mere schmuck playing with it could ever do.....you're just wasting time and posing about all the mods you want to pretend you need to improve the car--and supposedly your results.

Just drive the damn thing.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Thanks for the reply.

Quote
tdrrally
but the awd with a viscous center and a viscous rear(stock) was the best to date

It's funny that you should say this. I used to have a DSM with an open front, VC center, and VC rear and really enjoyed that car on any surface. But those days are gone. My take from your reply is that a softer-locking rear than the center or front would not be fun.

As to Phantom Grips, I hate them for pavement (and have had to explain to many a DSM drag-racer why they will or have trashed their center and broken their car), but at least one expert at rally-car set-up [Ryan Thompson] has also said that he likes them for gravel, especially when you've got an old Mitsu of some sort and a low budget. It surprised me when he said this, especially since he's a 10-second DSM guy, but he's someone I trust.

Quote
Iowa999
least one expert at rally-car set-up [Ryan Thompson] has also said that he likes them for gravel, especially when you've got an old Mitsu of some sort and a low budget. It surprised me when he said this, especially since he's a 10-second DSM guy, but he's someone I trust.

I'm confused, is he a drag guy or a rally "expert"?
Name is unknown to me which is why I ask. And nothing shows up under name on rallyracingnews.com so no help from there either.

I'll go ahead and posts a link to a statement regarding diffs by someone who could actually be considered a rally setup expert...
http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5%2C28423%2C28989#msg-28989

And another with comments from some who could be rightly considered experts and arguably one of the faster privateers in the NA (Chris Martin)
http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5%2C40838%2C40909

Hope this helps.

Also, your initial questions is biased. You are asking opinions on how much worse the hard locking diff is when many I know prefer a harder locking diff. And you aren't really defining what a hard locking diff is. Looking at this:
http://www.cusco.co.jp/en/parts_product/products/lsd_typers_typemz.html
I now understand that your question is not what you are asking.

But I will answer. On gravel, you want the MZ.

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Grant Hughes

Quote
Iowa999
Thanks for the reply.

Quote
tdrrally
but the awd with a viscous center and a viscous rear(stock) was the best to date

It's funny that you should say this. I used to have a DSM with an open front, VC center, and VC rear and really enjoyed that car on any surface. But those days are gone. My take from your reply is that a softer-locking rear than the center or front would not be fun.

As to Phantom Grips, I hate them for pavement (and have had to explain to many a DSM drag-racer why they will or have trashed their center and broken their car), but at least one expert at rally-car set-up [Ryan Thompson] has also said that he likes them for gravel, especially when you've got an old Mitsu of some sort and a low budget. It surprised me when he said this, especially since he's a 10-second DSM guy, but he's someone I trust.

i have used phantom grips in all sort of mitsu cars 1.5 mirage,1.8 mirage,fwd and awd dsm good on gravel ok on pavement . never drag raced with one.
the center for me needs some give but not to much and the rear can be less than a spool.
a solid center and rear can work on gravel but you got to drive it different than a viscous diff.

the nice thing about a 4wd is the lever , when you need rear drive grab it then back to 4wd

4wd with a rear lsd is a good low tech way to go, but not as forgiving as a viscous diff.

---

I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

Quote
tdrrally
i have used phantom grips in all sort of mitsu cars 1.5 mirage,1.8 mirage,fwd and awd dsm good on gravel ok on pavement . never drag raced with one.
4wd with a rear lsd is a good low tech way to go, but not as forgiving as a viscous diff.

What did you have at the 95 Sandhills Sandblast Rally?

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Grant Hughes

I should have stayed out of the Phantom Grip discussion.

Quote
NoCoast
Also, your initial questions is biased. You are asking opinions on how much worse the hard locking diff is when many I know prefer a harder locking diff.

Poorly-worded question, rather than biased in that way. I assumed that the MZ would be better than the RS; my question was how much worse would the RS be.

Quote
NoCoast
On gravel, you want the MZ.

Thanks.

I would go with the MZ 1.5 way with an active center/helical or Suretrac front.
Now if you are looking for something for a daily driver, the RS might be a decent compromise for parking at Wal-mart without squeeking tires. Springs looks kinda cheesy in it to me, especially compared to a good belleville.

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Grant Hughes

Squeaking tires aren't the issue, since no-one would be able to hear them over the brakes, anyway. But you're close. The problem is that, if you have an MZ, you must discard the yaw control. If you have an RS, you can keep it (and program around it on gravel).

stock supra lsd ,good clean wholesome fun !
we got stuck in the deep sand

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

I'm still wondering who Ryan Thompson is.

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Self-righteous douche canoe