Shit that bends... on Subaru.
Posted by lelikmed
lelikmed Alex Kuklov Ultra Moderator Location: Warwick NY Join Date: 01/02/2013 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 63 Rally Car: 2000 RS |
There isn't many K.Blocks, Higginses or L'Estages on this web site who can afford to hire 5 -10 people crew or carry a separate bus full of spares. I am more practical and have to approach rally realistically.
Something happens there is only so much I can do to fix it and go back. There are some minor damage to suspension that can be quickly repaired and car brought back to a stage. Here is a question regarding spare parts for Subaru suspension recommended to have. Control arm - steel trailing arms rear Lateral arms rear Spare calipers brake hoses Top hats for shocks One front axle One rear axle I don't carry spare knuckles or spare wheel studs ( I use APR) and the reason is that these are less likely to brake or bend. More likely something else would give way. Opinions? |
MConte05 Matthew Conte Mod Moderator Location: St. Louis, MO Join Date: 06/27/2011 Age: Settling Down Posts: 257 Rally Car: 1991 Subaru Legacy Turbozzzzzz |
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NoCoast Grant Hughes Mega Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Tavarich one of the things I have been told that routinely fail---leading to damage and DNFs is the captive nuts inside the bodyshell where a lot of the junk screws into. Captive nut held in with cheezoid resistence weld tears look, control arm flops and round and bangs banmgs bangs and then rips loose.
Then people say "The control arm failed/bent/whatever" when it was first the stinking captive nut.. Several you have no access to the back side (where the bolt sticks thru) because there is a false floor. It seems some work welding in more substantial nuts, what some people call "Thimbles" would go a long way towards reducing more serious failures. Are you familiar with this idea and solution? John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Do It Sidewayz Chris Martin Mega Moderator Location: Toronto, Ontario Join Date: 01/15/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 567 Rally Car: E-85 powered Impreza |
Sorry...but no pre-event check? Even if a wheel bearing starts making some noise on stage 1, it would/should finish the event! As for the original list: Control arm - steel - Yes, a pair pre assembled WITH Balljoints, by far fastest way to change a control arm is pull the pinch bolt from the hub and knock control arm out. If you have not aready, pull the joints and make sure the bolt and hub are anti-siezed. trailing arms rear - If you happen to trip on them or have a set, may as well, but not essential by any means Lateral arms rear - Yes, they take up almost zero space. But make absolutely sure you remove the lateral links, especially the "Big Bolt from Hell", and grease/anti-sieze. Spare calipers - Wouldn't bother, but do carry spare pads brake hoses - Yes, a full set of Stainless Braided lines is like $100, buy a complete kit, do not open it, and put it in your spare package. The kit will include banjo bolts, sealing washers, clips. Top hats for shocks - Replace the stuff on the car with NEW ones, All 4 mounts are like $250 total, but a new set and throw the old ones in the spare package. The rear mounts have been known to fail, the steel in the mount rusts and separates from rubber. One front axle - Yes One rear axle - You will VERY likely need both sides. Depending on the diff you are running the axles may be different left/right. Some LSD's require different splines from one side to the other. I would add a full set of FULLY ASSEMBLED STRUTS. 2004 STi inverted struts make a FANTASTIC set of spares for Subaru. Around here you can get a complete set with springs, top hats, etc for about $450 from JDM importers (version 7 sti). I cannot stress fully assembled enough, you don't have a chance in hell changing struts in a 20 minute service if they need to monkey with springs and top hats. But changing out a fully assembled unit can be done in 3 minutes a corner. For the record, none of this shit just bends unless you are hitting stuff! Chris |
NoCoast Grant Hughes Mega Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
Chris' list is spot on. They were checked pre-event. It was fine until final transit when it became super loud. If we didn't find a new one, we'd have run it. (100AW this year) The big issue is that I've mostly been involved with budget builds and running original or often even junkyard replacements. John - Aside from the Merkur control arm one, I've never had a captive nut be a problem on any car provided one isn't a moron with a 1200 ft lb impact. Grant Hughes |
johnhuebbe John Huebbe Junior Moderator Location: St. Peters, MO Join Date: 08/31/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 283 Rally Car: 1970 VW Beetle & 1991 Subaru Legacy |
You should carry spare lug nuts in your car and have spare wheel studs with your service vehicle. Lug nuts can easily come off during a rally due to not being torqued by a service member or get lost during a tire change (either during service or on stage). I've also ruined studs before on my Subaru, multiple times. |
simoniac Simon Wright Junior Moderator Location: Raleigh, NC Join Date: 10/19/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 161 Rally Car: Rally Spec Focus |
The ARP studs will be longer that oem which means there will be exposed threads if you use oem lug nuts. Consider longer lug nuts to keep those threads covered. I think the steel ones are better than aluminum ones for rally so watch for that if you get "tuner" lug nuts. And, of course, make sure your inexperienced crew know to hand-thread the lug nuts until they're sure that they're properly started before using the impact gun to wind them on the rest of the way.
Simon Wright Owner/Driver USUK Racing - Home of the USUK Racing LED Light Bars! North America Rally Map |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
OK Grant, fine , whatever.. Just going off what a guy who was full time working on nothing but Pat Richard's Subaru from his very begining to several years later...Ya Know--full time??? Daily? And the cars getting pounded.. It was the old Dave Clark and he said --perhaps---I don't know---a bit exaggerated------ "Every stinkin captive nut on the whole car rips loose---so you gotta have these "thimble things". Made a lotta sense... So Tavarich Alexei now internet has brought you what it does so perfectly: One guy says "Guy spent year working sorta -high level, big budget says to me "the captive nuts rip out, maybe think about reinforcing before hand".......... Other guy says "I never seen that...no problem" John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
NoCoast Grant Hughes Mega Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
And now the internet has brought you what rally does so perfectly: In my experience, mostly with friends who working class guys doing their own work and doing a rally or two a year max, this hasn't been an issue... Rebuked with, "One fairly wealthy guy that was also ridiculously fast and could afford to pay one well respected rallyist to build and maintain his car did it, or should we say, PAID the guy who now says it's mandatory to do it." Wonder what Zimmer or Don Kennedy or others that have like 50+ events in GC Subarus think... Grant Hughes |
KTurner Kevin Turner Mod Moderator Location: Newark, DE Join Date: 01/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 364 Rally Car: 2wd Impreza... dude you should do an sti swap |
the 2 impreza shells I've had have been attacked by a hole saw from the inside the fish out broken captive nuts. at least 1 on the rear subframe on each shell plus the rear control arm mount on the current shell (I know at least one other street/rallyx car with this repair too). They seem to break loose when disassembling.
-KTurner Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel. |
NoCoast Grant Hughes Mega Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
Oh yeah, what were those awesomely expensive things called to replace the captive nuts on the rear subframes that were all the rage a few years back? Basically a thick wall tube of correct diameter for the bolt.
I bet this IS more of a problem in areas with more rust issues. Grant Hughes |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Yeah that's the things. Extremely expensive because somebody was either really greedy or cynical or doesn't know how to make things at a fair price. Simple long weld nuts. Easy principle: integral washer and goes from bottom all the thru from bottom to top panel, and use a longer bolt, and thus stable ... A sort of ideal "do it once, then forget it" idea. But hey it never happens so why bother? Kevin is mistaken.. Must be like Jamie Drummond says of DMS "There has NEVER been a single failure of any DMS product in competition" it's always installer error. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
lelikmed Alex Kuklov Ultra Moderator Location: Warwick NY Join Date: 01/02/2013 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 63 Rally Car: 2000 RS |
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NoCoast Grant Hughes Mega Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
It probably is installer error. Over-torque, cross threading, or rusty hardware. Grant Hughes |
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