Would it be legal to...

...import a Ford Escort from Yerup or Arkansas Island (Australia, I think they call it) and make it into a rally car? Just a rally car. Or is it a "grey market" car, or just plain not worth the time, money, and effort?

---

Something about something....dirt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2012 07:07PM by Houdini91.

What sort of Escort? Mk 1 or Mk 2 are old enough to bring in legally, but finding one reasonably priced may be a challenge. Escort Cosworth...well, there are ways, in varying shades of gray...Again, big money. You could actually legally import most 3 door Sierras now, but it's probably less hassle to build from an XR4Ti.

What are your goals here?

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

I'm shooting for a Mk. II Escort. I want to save money until I can bring over a Mk II from someplace (probably just a shell) and swap in a 2 liter Alfa Romeo engine, since they're easier to get parts for, probably. And then prep it for rallying. Not ready to buy yet, but I was just wondering if it was worth it to even seriously consider.

---

Something about something....dirt.

Quote
Houdini91
I'm shooting for a Mk. II Escort.

If by Mk II Escort you mean a Volvo 240 (sometimes referred to as the 'new Escort' or the right sized Escort for the Americas) then just look for something local rather than importing.

Quote
Houdini91
I want to save money until I can bring over a Mk II from someplace (probably just a shell) and swap in a 2 liter Alfa Romeo engine, since they're easier to get parts for, probably.

Do some research.
I think Rally America still requires the engine be from the product line of the manufacturer, same with CARS but not with NRS. By fitting an Alpha motor you're limiting where you can run the car, quite needlessly. (If I had to guess, Alpha parts are going to be tougher to find than Ford, even old Ford.)

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
Houdini91
...import a Ford Escort from Yerup or Arkansas Island (Australia, I think they call it) and make it into a rally car? Just a rally car. Or is it a "grey market" car, or just plain not worth the time, money, and effort?

Tyler, you can do it no problem, except two things: money and money.
Money to do it, just finding a worthwhile shell, and then getting it to you.

Second is money for inevitable battle damage. A front wing, a windshield, a front blinker., a door...

There is no arguing that they work fantastically well with their near 50/50 f/r and 50/50 L/R balance. There's room for a variety of really fun engines and being light, around 2100lbs they go like stink even with pretty modest sized and hotted up motors---and 5.1 axle in back..

But they're still very very popular and the basic parts cost a whole heap-o-mulah.

Think though, where they are still as good as any car made is on what we never saw in USA and don't see much anywhere anymore: very very narrow and twisty roads.

I've driven and ridden in Escorts well prepped, they're cool, super easy to carve or slide a bit or hang it out. and I've driven bazillions of km on the roads they work good on: about one lane--for a car that narrow--wide and twisty, like drive hard and average 45mph..

But if you are in USA where it was a new 'empty" continent and where everything was bigger and where space down to the last square foot hadn't been owned by somebody for 400-600 years, our forefathers built BIG STRAIGHT-ish wide roads. Even out here where its mountainous, the trees are huge and the roads built were built to accmmodate big Kenworths hauling the trees longways acting as the trailer, so they're the size of road going semis with corners to allow the long big rigs to corner (before there were roads in our mountains, and labor was cheaper, all thru the whole west there were temporary narrow gauge railroads all over. Standard gauge is 4' 8.5" and that needs a right-of-way yay wide and can only do curves aw fuckit here;

Quote

Minimum radius

Minimum curve radii for railroads are governed by the speed operated and by the mechanical ability of the rolling stock to adjust to the curvature. In North America, equipment for unlimited interchange between railroad companys are built to accommodate 350-foot radius (16 degrees 26 minutes) or sharper, but normally 410-foot radius (14 degrees) is used as a minimum, as some freight cars are handled by special agreement between railroads that cannot take the sharper curvature. For handling of long freight trains, a minimum 717-foot radius (8 degrees) is preferred.

The sharpest curves tend to be on the narrowest of narrow gauge railways, where almost everything is proportionately smaller.[3][4

When they were done logging they'd "pull up stakes" and move on, and those roadbeds often became roads
Big long trees and big roads...
That's why the average speeds in all North American events are, even for total newb numpties in low powered barely warmed ove stuff is about as high as the average speeds in the WRC historically..

Now, tell me, what do you need any short little car whose main claim is it's nimbleness?

You may notice I push 2 cars that are very very similar in size, and wheelbase (102.7" and 103.9" and that have relatively big 2300 engines and are both right at the nice near 50/50, notice that?
There's a ton of solid reasons...one of which is the motors can make enough torque that you don't have to do the "build the snot outta da motor, rev the piss outta it and then gear it super short" which costs money to do even half right. For a newbular dude starting in anywhere there's the dreaded and ridiculous Rally America which allows any n.a. motor, even a 260 bhp screamer but forbids even a stock turbo, you can grab a 8v head and muill the fuck out of it, slap on some K can, gear it short around 4.65 or 4.75/4.88 have have tons of fun..

Think of it, we have guys like Adam Crane in his Toiletta Commodah with a crappy little near stock 1600 and he does fine---thanks to 5.35 ratio in his Volvo axle. Or Garth in Portland with a barely warmed up Saab V4--a nice red 69 like mine---and he even beats Adam sometimes--he has a 5.45 final drive....(of course it helps the Saab is under 2000 lbs tee hee!)
But think: a Frod Hexrattie or an Vulvoid with a 2300 is just about 50% larger and all things being equal--all things like compression---it'll make somewhat like 50% more torques, lots of torques..
Sure the Frod or the 240 will weigh a bit more but only around 10% more..

See?
As much as I lurv them Escorts, I don't see any competitive advantage for where you'll be racing, where there are distinct advantages in the bigger cars in cost, cost cost AND how well the car works for the local conditions.
The 240 really is "the Escort of North America"* and what's really nice is both can be run without tons of fucking around so you do like Adam did and like everybody i know who stayed in did: you get out on gravel (on gravel--din't say in rallies, in the car, on the surface) and you rack up miles and hours.. while putting together a decent correct solid motor and box and spread out the pain.**

\

* It really is, even if too many guys just follow "what everybody did already" and ignore the obvious--read the whole thread of the idiot "injur-near" who understeered off into air with his shittily build Evo for what really is the norm for North America....

** I like 2300 SOHC turbos, very simple to make all the poop a 2wd car could ever need AND have a big broad powerband for short money, but with EITHER if a guy likes n.a. and snap and revs the 16v Volvo head is a jewel.
Again very easy to make all the power 2 tires can use and still have broad flexible motor that pulls hard and revs decent.
It's really a hard choice, they're both such fun solutions.









but are you ready to pay $8000-12,000, or 60k? plus go get the car? You have to get the thing to Gothenburg for the Ro-Ro (Roll on, Roll off) boats then to Newark, NJ or maybe Houston. That'll be money (It'd be a funner than hell trip that's for sure) and maybe 1500 transport, then 2.3% duty.

You could build a pretty fantastic 240 for a lot less and it'll work just as good.

And you can repair it.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Houdini91
I'm shooting for a Mk. II Escort. I want to save money until I can bring over a Mk II from someplace (probably just a shell) and swap in a 2 liter Alfa Romeo engine, since they're easier to get parts for, probably. And then prep it for rallying. Not ready to buy yet, but I was just wondering if it was worth it to even seriously consider.

An Alfa motor? Good god just pull out a gun and shoot yourself in the head now, it'll be over sooner.
A fucking early 50s design?

Dood, use your head.

Don't do things voluntarily that are utterly and completely pointless.
The car is pointless but at least you can virtually drop in a nice modern motor such as the Duratec/PZ Mazdog which is so much better in every concieveable area including; availability, cost for a core, cost to mod, torque potential on pump gas, hp potential on pump gas, weight, compatability with affordable gearboxes...

My fucking god you are not thinking straight.
Are you doing the Turbobricks smokie ropie?

The Afla was a cute thing once, when they came in Alfas but they didn't make any power without spending millions..

I have to ask, where is the money for this going to come from?
You want to ever rally?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2012 09:06PM by john vanlandingham.

What John and Morison said. I think they even agree!

Alfa engine? Wow. Just wow. I might want to try some of those drugs, just once.

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Quote
fiasco
What John and Morison said. I think they even agree!

Alfa engine? Wow. Just wow. I might want to try some of those drugs, just once.

You never smoka da spliff-a-juhana, mang? It's overrated. I'd say straight to 'shrooms.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Morison

Quote
Houdini91
I'm shooting for a Mk. II Escort.

If by Mk II Escort you mean a Volvo 240 (sometimes referred to as the 'new Escort' or the right sized Escort for the Americas) then just look for something local rather than importing.

Quote
Houdini91
I want to save money until I can bring over a Mk II from someplace (probably just a shell) and swap in a 2 liter Alfa Romeo engine, since they're easier to get parts for, probably.

Do some research.
I think Rally America still requires the engine be from the product line of the manufacturer, same with CARS but not with NRS. By fitting an Alpha motor you're limiting where you can run the car, quite needlessly. (If I had to guess, Alpha parts are going to be tougher to find than Ford, even old Ford.)

I'm really hoping my first rally car will be a 240, but if the Escort thing happens then it would be in a few years.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
Houdini91
...import a Ford Escort from Yerup or Arkansas Island (Australia, I think they call it) and make it into a rally car? Just a rally car. Or is it a "grey market" car, or just plain not worth the time, money, and effort?

Tyler, you can do it no problem, except two things: money and money.
Money to do it, just finding a worthwhile shell, and then getting it to you.

Second is money for inevitable battle damage. A front wing, a windshield, a front blinker., a door...

There is no arguing that they work fantastically well with their near 50/50 f/r and 50/50 L/R balance. There's room for a variety of really fun engines and being light, around 2100lbs they go like stink even with pretty modest sized and hotted up motors---and 5.1 axle in back..

But they're still very very popular and the basic parts cost a whole heap-o-mulah.

Think though, where they are still as good as any car made is on what we never saw in USA and don't see much anywhere anymore: very very narrow and twisty roads.

I've driven and ridden in Escorts well prepped, they're cool, super easy to carve or slide a bit or hang it out. and I've driven bazillions of km on the roads they work good on: about one lane--for a car that narrow--wide and twisty, like drive hard and average 45mph..

But if you are in USA where it was a new 'empty" continent and where everything was bigger and where space down to the last square foot hadn't been owned by somebody for 400-600 years, our forefathers built BIG STRAIGHT-ish wide roads. Even out here where its mountainous, the trees are huge and the roads built were built to accmmodate big Kenworths hauling the trees longways acting as the trailer, so they're the size of road going semis with corners to allow the long big rigs to corner (before there were roads in our mountains, and labor was cheaper, all thru the whole west there were temporary narrow gauge railroads all over. Standard gauge is 4' 8.5" and that needs a right-of-way yay wide and can only do curves aw fuckit here;

Quote

Minimum radius

Minimum curve radii for railroads are governed by the speed operated and by the mechanical ability of the rolling stock to adjust to the curvature. In North America, equipment for unlimited interchange between railroad companys are built to accommodate 350-foot radius (16 degrees 26 minutes) or sharper, but normally 410-foot radius (14 degrees) is used as a minimum, as some freight cars are handled by special agreement between railroads that cannot take the sharper curvature. For handling of long freight trains, a minimum 717-foot radius (8 degrees) is preferred.

The sharpest curves tend to be on the narrowest of narrow gauge railways, where almost everything is proportionately smaller.[3][4

When they were done logging they'd "pull up stakes" and move on, and those roadbeds often became roads
Big long trees and big roads...
That's why the average speeds in all North American events are, even for total newb numpties in low powered barely warmed ove stuff is about as high as the average speeds in the WRC historically..

Now, tell me, what do you need any short little car whose main claim is it's nimbleness?

You may notice I push 2 cars that are very very similar in size, and wheelbase (102.7" and 103.9" and that have relatively big 2300 engines and are both right at the nice near 50/50, notice that?
There's a ton of solid reasons...one of which is the motors can make enough torque that you don't have to do the "build the snot outta da motor, rev the piss outta it and then gear it super short" which costs money to do even half right. For a newbular dude starting in anywhere there's the dreaded and ridiculous Rally America which allows any n.a. motor, even a 260 bhp screamer but forbids even a stock turbo, you can grab a 8v head and muill the fuck out of it, slap on some K can, gear it short around 4.65 or 4.75/4.88 have have tons of fun..

Think of it, we have guys like Adam Crane in his Toiletta Commodah with a crappy little near stock 1600 and he does fine---thanks to 5.35 ratio in his Volvo axle. Or Garth in Portland with a barely warmed up Saab V4--a nice red 69 like mine---and he even beats Adam sometimes--he has a 5.45 final drive....(of course it helps the Saab is under 2000 lbs tee hee!)
But think: a Frod Hexrattie or an Vulvoid with a 2300 is just about 50% larger and all things being equal--all things like compression---it'll make somewhat like 50% more torques, lots of torques..
Sure the Frod or the 240 will weigh a bit more but only around 10% more..

See?
As much as I lurv them Escorts, I don't see any competitive advantage for where you'll be racing, where there are distinct advantages in the bigger cars in cost, cost cost AND how well the car works for the local conditions.
The 240 really is "the Escort of North America"* and what's really nice is both can be run without tons of fucking around so you do like Adam did and like everybody i know who stayed in did: you get out on gravel (on gravel--din't say in rallies, in the car, on the surface) and you rack up miles and hours.. while putting together a decent correct solid motor and box and spread out the pain.**

\

* It really is, even if too many guys just follow "what everybody did already" and ignore the obvious--read the whole thread of the idiot "injur-near" who understeered off into air with his shittily build Evo for what really is the norm for North America....

** I like 2300 SOHC turbos, very simple to make all the poop a 2wd car could ever need AND have a big broad powerband for short money, but with EITHER if a guy likes n.a. and snap and revs the 16v Volvo head is a jewel.
Again very easy to make all the power 2 tires can use and still have broad flexible motor that pulls hard and revs decent.
It's really a hard choice, they're both such fun solutions.









but are you ready to pay $8000-12,000, or 60k? plus go get the car? You have to get the thing to Gothenburg for the Ro-Ro (Roll on, Roll off) boats then to Newark, NJ or maybe Houston. That'll be money (It'd be a funner than hell trip that's for sure) and maybe 1500 transport, then 2.3% duty.

You could build a pretty fantastic 240 for a lot less and it'll work just as good.

I want an Escort rally car because I really like them and nothing is an Escort except and Escort. Know what I mean? Like nothing is a Ferrari but a Ferrari, etc. And I think it would be really cool, even if I'd be better off in a Volvo and the Escort isn't really suited for US rallies. Not looking for a competitive advantage for the Escort...actually, now that you say that, that reminds me that if I'm going to go on a huge road trip and drop a lot of cabbage on an entry fee, plus the huge Hasslehoff of finding the car, getting it here, making it a rally car, etc. then I'm not exactly going to play to lose. But I really do want to get a 240 or Amazon or 96 V4 rally car, and that's what I'm really hoping to start out with. But if/when the Escort thing happens, it'll be at least 5 years down the road. Assuming "life doesn't happen," but that's a pretty dumb thing not to account for. I'd be willing to spend the money on that, but not much more than $20k. And I have no problem with road trips. But shipping the spares here would blow.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
Houdini91
I'm shooting for a Mk. II Escort. I want to save money until I can bring over a Mk II from someplace (probably just a shell) and swap in a 2 liter Alfa Romeo engine, since they're easier to get parts for, probably. And then prep it for rallying. Not ready to buy yet, but I was just wondering if it was worth it to even seriously consider.

An Alfa motor? Good god just pull out a gun and shoot yourself in the head now, it'll be over sooner.
A fucking early 50s design?

Dood, use your head.

Don't do things voluntarily that are utterly and completely pointless.
The car is pointless but at least you can virtually drop in a nice modern motor such as the Duratec/PZ Mazdog which is so much better in every concieveable area including; availability, cost for a core, cost to mod, torque potential on pump gas, hp potential on pump gas, weight, compatability with affordable gearboxes...

My fucking god you are not thinking straight.
Are you doing the Turbobricks smokie ropie?

The Afla was a cute thing once, when they came in Alfas but they didn't make any power without spending millions..

I have to ask, where is the money for this going to come from?
You want to ever rally?

An Alfa motor? Yeah, it's the first 2 liter that popped into my head after almost zero thinking. It's mostly because I'm always seeing free or cheap ones pop up on Alfa BB, but I'm not planning on frying any engines anytime soon, or stupid ideas. But I don't know yet. I just wanted to throw some ideas in the air and let people that know what they're doing give their opinion on it.

And I like Alfas. Except for Spiders. I'm not bald or old, so I'm not qualified to own one. Don't care about going fast in a road car, but I like for my cars to not rust or fall apart/break down, so that's out.

And I was just hired by General Electric after two years of job searching. 45+ hours a week at $10 an hour and no bills should get me an okay Vulva rally car, right?

---

Something about something....dirt.

Quote
fiasco
What John and Morison said. I think they even agree!

Alfa engine? Wow. Just wow. I might want to try some of those drugs, just once.

---

Something about something....dirt.

Quote
Houdini91


And I was just hired by General Electric after two years of job searching. 45+ hours a week at $10 an hour and no bills should get me an okay Vulva rally car, right?

Yeah, $10/hr is you're living expenses are modest and you don't splurge on useless shit like giant TV and stooopid toy cell-phones and 6000 buck mountain bikes ought to get you a reasonable car.
Gotta watch out for crazy ideas tho.

We don't need to discover anything new to have a rip snortin , a rootin and a -tootin good time, just basic strong shit and some compression and axle ratio.
Start searching for a T5 gearbox so if you stumble across one for cheap you can snag it cause then, if you find some roachmobile 240 or Xratty--it doesn't make a difference cause they get the same parts---then if if find a auto-tragic that's daid, and its $200 for the car, you're set.

Opportunity buys is your friend..
And start finding where you can get a cage done---to the book, not the normal "Aw shit we'ze always do 'em this way" . You have to stress to whoever it has to be like you'll show them.

Well get searchin.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
fiasco
What John and Morison said. I think they even agree!

I've always said that John and I agree more often than he'd like to admit.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
Houdini91


And I was just hired by General Electric after two years of job searching. 45+ hours a week at $10 an hour and no bills should get me an okay Vulva rally car, right?

Yeah, $10/hr is you're living expenses are modest and you don't splurge on useless shit like giant TV and stooopid toy cell-phones and 6000 buck mountain bikes ought to get you a reasonable car.
Gotta watch out for crazy ideas tho.

We don't need to discover anything new to have a rip snortin , a rootin and a -tootin good time, just basic strong shit and some compression and axle ratio.
Start searching for a T5 gearbox so if you stumble across one for cheap you can snag it cause then, if you find some roachmobile 240 or Xratty--it doesn't make a difference cause they get the same parts---then if if find a auto-tragic that's daid, and its $200 for the car, you're set.

Opportunity buys is your friend..
And start finding where you can get a cage done---to the book, not the normal "Aw shit we'ze always do 'em this way" . You have to stress to whoever it has to be like you'll show them.

Well get searchin.

My rent would be about $tree fiddy a month, plus food and like $85 for car insurance. I'd rather just buy a log booked rally car because the main thing is going out and wrapping something around a tree as soon as possible. Or just get an old rusty 242 beater and throw rally tires on it so I can practice. Most likely that one. Good thing they always pop up on TurboDicks.

And if I end up having to get my own cage built to the books, it'll be hard finding someplace in Missouri.

---

Something about something....dirt.

Sounds like Tyler is a perfect candidate for this:
http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?7,68865,68865#msg-68865

How far are you from Wichita, KS? Tony Woods
How far from St Peters? Mark and John Huebbe
St Louis - Matt Conte

The list goes on.
Check out all the MO on here:
http://www.rallyracingnews.com/ra/perryville11-res.html

These guys are getting cages done somehow. Either themselves or otherwise. Make friends with them!
You driving up to Ojibwe next weekend?
You signed up for Perryville? Volunteer or crew?
The only way you'll successfully rally is to make some friends with other rallyists so everything isn't so expensive because you and friends can do it instead of paying someone else to do it! Just gotta find the friends with the skillz.

---

Grant Hughes

I'll have a caged BMW for sale here in a few weeks. Though I'm hoping to keep that one local, it'll be around $4k for a running and driving caged car. Add safety gear, skid plates, gravel tires, dampers, and maybe some better brake pads and go rally!

---

Grant Hughes