Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!

Another thing to consider is insurance has very different coverages. Many of the small entry fee events, such as some hill climbs have organizer/land owner liability. No medical for participants or workers. Get hurt, you have to sue and prevail to get anything. The hillclimbs around here pay about 1/10 of what we pay for rally. Now the timber companies request a loss rider..burn a tree, buy a tree.


Seems like we maybe have two options for the financially challenged...either 'we' figure out a way to lower our costs or 'you' figure out a way to increase your income. 'We' pretty much run with a bare bone business plan already. Big profit isn't in the cards and break even is hoped for. So I'm going to go with the second option. Want to rally and can't afford it? Get a second job, dig for sponsors, marry a rich gal (or guy..not judging). Want a fast TSD, get busy, put one on yourself. Over worked organizers won't save rally, but we can tell someone new how to do something just as easy as someone can tell us what needs to be done...

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heymagic
'you' figure out a way to increase your income.

Might want to be careful with that Gene, you say it in jest, but...

I bet I spend close to 5 hours a week average volunteering my time to rally throughout the year, and I don't do much. I could be a much better president, but I'm not. I do what is needed because I honestly don't think there is anyone to fill the position. I try to give back to the community as best as I can.

Due to the ever increasing costs, and with an opportunity that came along (plus being young and wanting to make hay while the sun shines), I am not running again this year (its election year for my position).

So, your request has been answered in a sense. I'll take that 5 hours a week and go earn an extra $500 per week. So I can rally. But if enough volunteers did that, we wouldn't have any volunteers. Which brings me to the fact that in another decade, I think rally will be paying for volunteers. We already are through subsidizing their own personal costs (fuel, lodge, etc).

I thought it was cool when I was 16 that there was an amazing group of people to hang out with, work with, and then get to go out in the woods and watch cars zoom buy with. I paid out of my own pocket, or slept on the couch/floor of other people's hotel rooms. I paid good money to go volunteer at a test day in BC this year (with gas at $1.30/L). Hundreds (if not over $1k) out of my pocket per year volunteering. And now its gone.

Food for though indeed. I'd rather see events stay smaller/give less for less money than get more expensive. One is sustainable, the other isn't IMO. Unless we have 15 millionaries racing through the woods, but as I've stated elsewhere, I ain't volunteering for them. I volunteer for the grassroots guys who pour their soul into the sport, not money.

I don't recall where Carl posted it but regarding LSPR he said, "of 240 people that competed in 2004 and 2014 there were 10 repeats."
Seemed really really low to me.

One thing I see very little of is any real top down support. Subaru has their Subaru money but that is about it. But do you really see much else?
Then again, I offered contingencies in the form of $100 cash at the awards party to the first five of my customers to register for Idaho. Only three bothered to go to the optional awards party (other two turned left at final MTC and went back to their hotels instead.)

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Grant Hughes

I've only skipped an awards party one as i was fighting with the wife (navigator)

but i felt bad about it. racers should really go and try to thank and meet more volunteers in person.

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NoCoast
I don't recall where Carl posted it but regarding LSPR he said, "of 240 people that competed in 2004 and 2014 there were 10 repeats."
Seemed really really low to me.

Hmmm, this seems like a job for... DAAAAATAAABAAASE!

STPR 2004-2014: 5
Bernard Farrell
Dominik Jozwiak
Grzegorz [Greg] Dorman
Nathalie Richard
Patrick Farrell

SnoDrift 2004-2014: 8
Andrew Comrie-Picard
Cindy Krolikowski
Henry Krolikowski
Jimmy [Jimmy] Brandt
Kim DeMotte
Larry J Parker
Ole Holter
Scott Putnam

Ojibwe 2004-2014: 10
Alex Gelsomino
Cindy Krolikowski
Henry Krolikowski
James [Jim] Cox
Jimmy [Jimmy] Brandt
Kim DeMotte
Lauchlin O'Sullivan
Ole Holter
Scott Parrott
Scott Putnam

NEFR 2004-2014: 11
Andrew Comrie-Picard
Christopher [Chris] Duplessis
David [Dave] Getchell
Dominik Jozwiak
Jeremy Wimpey
John F. Cassidy IV
Maciej Przybysz
Nathalie Richard
Ole Holter
Robert Maciejski
Wyatt Knox

That's drivers and codrivers mixed together. Restrict it to drivers only and it turns into, what, 1 3 3 2?

(I could re-run the queries to be just drivers but meh, close enough.)

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

First off ..Adam..with the new rally car AWD Sube project just bought and a $23,000 rally car for sale..I'm not sure you're needing top worry about event expenses so much.


Second..Jeebus 10 year spread and we're worried about numbers of repeats? How many of those 2004 people were around in 1994? I see maybe 4 names I 'd guess were. So now we're at a 20 year participation. I'll bet a couple might have been around in 1984 also. Silly comparison. But try and look at the volunteer names and see how many are still around after 10 years or see how many competitors are now volunteering....I'll be the sport in general has a fair amount of retention, just depends where you look. I look around at the meetings and see most of the same faces I saw 20 years ago. I saw JV in 1984, last competed in 2010 (or so) still involved actively in other roles. I spectated in 1982, competed in 1983, last competed in 2007? , still involved. Ron Barker has been around in various rolls from competing to organizing since we switched from wooden spoked wheels, Jimmy Brandt close to the same. Hinges on the old adage, figures don't lie but liars can figure, kinda sorta (not even calling anyone here names btw). Obama is a master at having numbers show a view , that isn't actual.

MOSTLY I'd like to see more threads with the question :" What can I do to afford rally better?" and less threads asking events, sanctioning bodies and organizers " What can you do to help me afford rally?" Does that make sense without being offensive? Probably could be stated better..JV spends every waking moment trying to help people afford the sport and organizers spend massive time (unpaid) to give you a sport to enjoy. Maybe be more appreciative to all of us (including JV) ???

1) Don't buy a toter home.
2) Don't buy a motor home.
3) Don't buy a box truck.
4) Don't buy a 7.3 liter turbo diesel truck.
5) Don't buy an enclosed trailer.

There, I just saved you somewhere between $4,000 and $400,000 dollars.

Yes, I know... ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE NICE TO HAVE.

Oh, those are things that only "those rich people" would think of buying?

Don't buy a cordless impact gun for tire changes.
Don't buy a welding machine.
Don't buy an aluminum jack.
Don't buy pin stands.
Don't buy team shirts.
Don't buy a trailer. (rent one)
Don't buy an ez-up tent.

There, I just saved you somewhere between $150 to $4,000.

Yes, I know... ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE NICE TO HAVE.

Oh, those are things that only "those poor people" couldn't afford?

Don't buy carbon fiber anything.
Don't buy those custom-cast urethane mudflaps.
Don't buy engine data displays (STACK etcetera).
Don't buy massive clusters of guages.
Don't buy a corralba odo.
Don't buy ANY odo.
Don't buy 10x20 EZ-Up brand tents.

There, I just saved you somewhere between $200 and $4,000.

Yes, I know... ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE NICE TO HAVE.

Pretty much at all levels of rally, if YOU are complaining about cost, you probably have some stuff that you don't need, you just wanted it.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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heymagic
First off ..Adam..with the new rally car AWD Sube project just bought and a $23,000 rally car for sale..I'm not sure you're needing top worry about event expenses so much.

Gene, no offense, but you dont know me except for being a guy on the interwebs. I have a $23k rallycar, yes, but not much else to my name. I work hard/have worked hard to afford what I can. You'd notice that at the end of the day, selling the black car is about money. If it wasnt, I'd keep it.

Your argument is a pretty poor one, even most well off people I know struggle to keep costs in line with a certain critical limit that means go or no go for any hobby/activity they are involved in.

Im not asking for pity or sympathy or anything at all, just adding a datapoint based on your suggestion. I basically had decided the exact route you suggested, before you suggested it

I sort of had to buy a 7.3 diesel (van) and a trailer. (1950 for the van, 2495 for the trailer) LoL
I had non rally, but racing people starting to poo poo at me :p (you've done how many events and still going under prepared?)

and well mostly it was my wife who got made at me for having to ride back in the rally car after a lot of damage. exhaust was broken and i was on a borrowed coilover cause mine broke.

and with trailer resale values in and around reno , and me moving. hell an enclosed trailer Might go up in value in this crazy town ... and the van sort of paid for itself ... before the transmission took a dump, and then other misc parts (Ecu) ... lol now is like a $5,000 van

now I'm all grown up and prepared and i think it was more fun the other way ... (was cheaper!)

:p

i have a paid for 99 tahoe and open trailer i have had for 10 years now

just got to suck up the costs and deal with it or find a different way to go

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

I looked at a Penske truck rental for 100AW. Pickup in Denver, drop off in Cheyenne, WY (100 miles away) for the amount of time needed plus the mileage to drive to Salem and back plus 200 was like $450. Only hard part would be having to get someone to drive to Cheyenne and back with me which is a pretty easy logistical issue. That's a monthly payment on a leased truck. The monthly insurance payment would cover the trailer rental as well...

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Grant Hughes

i kicked the idea of a rental around, but i need my suv and trailer for my life too much.

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

Penske for the win ! @ $450 per rental ... would almost work out for me. my last 2 years i did 9 events, so that would have costed me $4,050

But i also moved a 1500 sq house + rally spares and towed my rally car, and my STI.
probably saved me an extra $300

and a rally cross tow this weekend.. so almost $5,000 which after smog and registration and insurance is right about where i bet i'm at after 3 years of "glorious" Van ownership ...

wow surprising how darn close that works out to be. I need to race more to make owning the van worth it versus renting.

I have also delivered about 7 pallets of retaining wall stones and 6 yards of dirt. The dirt i could probably ordered all at once and had free delivery (but it would have made the project a LOT tougher) the pallets of stone would have cost me a lot @ 2700# a pallet. .

Still if someone does 3 rallies (or tows) per year I think they would save money just renting ... that's good food for thought and really where we should steer new comers to the sport.

did the 450 include your trailer rental or you already had one?

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A1337STI
Still if someone does 3 rallies (or tows) per year I think they would save money just renting ... that's good food for thought and really where we should steer new comers to the sport.

And since the 2013 average was 2.2 events per driver, yes, renting should overwhelmingly be the recommendation.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

DD a pickup truck than can tow. You need a DD anyways. I spend an extra 4-500 a year on fuel DD'ing a truck than my old car. Trucks have 10x more use anyways for things other than rally.

Buy a used trailer, value is nearly static on used trailer. If you can foot the initial bill its basically free rent minus up keep because you can sell it for damn near what you paid for it. I think this is a better route than renting, but everyones situation is different. If you're wishy washy, and might quit rally after a year.... well why would you want to do that anyways.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2014 01:00PM by czwalga.