Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!

You can't do a proper broadcast quality show for less than six figures. It is the primary driver of roi but difficult to tell the story and lackluster and thin thin fields really harm it. Elimination of open class and having sp and 2wd only would go a long way towards generating a story.
Youth want under 3 minute highlights. Attention span length. Estd's trailer was exciting. The full length was mildly boring. One person can't cover a season (nor was it an effort to) and the storylines are a bit disconnected and incomplete. The only recurring theme/plot we saw in it was that rally is expensive. I knew most of the people in the film so really enjoyed it. Other rallyists that don't follow much RA were rather quickly distracted during our viewing party. Fun film, but not likely to bring in new rallyists.
Nearly every rally person I am close friends with locally got involved from watching it on TV in the late 90s/early 2000s. WRC on Speed mostly, some from watching SCCA Pro Rally though Marty Reed or whatever that dudes name is made for some shitty productions.

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Grant Hughes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2013 05:14PM by NoCoast.

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NoCoast
You can't do a proper broadcast quality show for less than six figures. It is the primary driver of roi but difficult to tell the story and lackluster and thin thin fields really harm it. Elimination of open class and having sp and 2wd only would go a long way towards generating a story.
Youth want under 3 minute highlights. Attention span length. Estd's trailer was exciting. The full length was mildly boring. One person can't cover a season (nor was it an effort to) and the storylines are a bit disconnected and incomplete. The only recurring theme/plot we saw in it was that rally is expensive. I knew most of the people in the film so really enjoyed it. Other rallyists that don't follow much RA were rather quickly distracted during our viewing party. Fun film, but not likely to bring in new rallyists.
Nearly every rally person I am close friends with locally got involved from watching it on TV in the late 90s/early 2000s. WRC on Speed mostly, some from watching SCCA Pro Rally though Marty Reed or whatever that dudes name is made for some shitty productions.

QFT.

Fifteen years ago I was a small part of some still photo productions for a couple of cookbooks, some advertising, and some annual reports…you could count on a week of studio shooting with a makeshift kitchen and a couple stylists or a week of relatively local location shooting being $20,000-25,000 with just one assistant -- easy. The higher-end ad shoots I was involved with were closing in on six-figures for a week of studio shooting. I don't see how you could move everybody around for the CRC video productions for less than $250k for the season, and that's with a Ramen-based per diem for the crew. Then there's post-production, voice-over, etc. Even the cheap stuff isn't cheap.

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

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john vanlandingham

On the udder hand---the problem of people who really are peripheral--like journalists or self-proclaimed "media personalities" and the uncontrolled spending by some who have no self-restraint and who "think it's "neat" to spend $300,000 to a million dollars to go beat "us guys' in garage built cars brings with it inevitably pressure to see their exploits idealized.....uh "cause the sponsors wanna see a ROI"..

Thus a 30 year tradition is chucked, hundreds of schedules re-arranged, all so one guy can play everything he wants "so the sponsors get a ROI"

Sorry, John, but you're wrong. As mentioned already, the STPR date change is due to more than just Ken. Also, it quite likely would not even have been factor at all, save for STPR being one of the "mandatory" events on this year's schedule. Personally not a fan of that system, but I digress...

As for the sponsors wanting to see ROI, of course they do. But, in the case of our team anyway, they get that from the GRC events, the yearly Gymkhana video and the various appearances made throughout the year. Rally has nothing to do with it. Our media team busts their asses to put together content from the rallies to add to our website and social media accounts, but it's more for consistency than anything else. At the end of the day, this whole team loves rally, first and foremost, but we get paid to do the other things mentioned and this sport is a fun addition to the schedule.

As an additional aside, nobody from Hoonigan is spending the money and dancing the happy dance because we beat your aforementioned "us guys." (Remember, when I'm not working, I'm part of the "us guys" group, when sitting with Chris Martin, Chris Greenhouse, etc.). I suspect if David and Travis with Subaru and Antoine with his own program weren't there, you'd not likely see our team playing along. Not in its current form anyway. Ken doesn't derive any particular pleasure or ego boost, from beating the club guys. Ford wants to beat Subaru is what that comes down to. Nothing more nefarious than that.

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-Brian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2013 06:36AM by Brian Johnson.

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Brian Johnson
Sorry, John, but you're wrong.

I'm open to a more detailed discussion of this.

But first, Merry Christmas.

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Brian Johnson
As mentioned already, the STPR date change is due to more than just Ken.

The last time I talked about this I think the numbers that were thrown out were something like "50 rally people and a dozen of the RA employees who run the GRC" wouldn't be able to make it to a rally in conflict which I find incredulous. I don't think RA has any full time (non-Fogg) employees at this time, which RA people are employed by GRC?Is there any more precise listing of the "what" you could provide?

Here's all the GRC drivers listed on the GRC page, and to the side, their involvement in US rally:
Ken Block (currently active, RA national 2013)
David Sterckx (currently active, RA national 2013)
Dave Mirra (last rally 2012)
Travis Pastrana (last rally 2011)
Pat Moro (last rally 2010)
Tanner Foust (last rally 2009)
Rhys Millen (last rally 2009)
Brian Deegan (1 rally, 2009)
Patrik Sandell (1 rally, 2009)
Stephan Verdier (last rally 2008)
Toomas Heikkinen (never)
Scott Speed (never)
Sverre Isachsen (never)
Steve Arpin (never)
Liam Doran (never)
Bucky Lasek (never)
Bryce Menzies (never)
Timur Timerzyanov (never)
Anton Marklund (never)
Mattias Ekstrom (never)
Nelson Piquet Jr. (never)
Townsend Bell (never)
Guilherme Spinelli (never)
Henning Solberg (never)
Buddy Rice (never)
Mauricio Neves (never)
Edu Marques (never)
Nani Roma (never)
Carlos Sainz (never)
Joni Wiman (LITES) (never)
Sebastian Eriksson (LITES) (never)
Mitchell deJong (LITES) (never)
Kevin Eriksson (LITES) (never)
Alexander Westlund (LITES) (never)
Austin Dyne (LITES) (never)
Geoff Sykes (LITES) (never)
Harry Cheung (LITES) (never)
Halid Avdagic (LITES) (never)
Reinis Nitiss (LITES) (never)
Tyler Benson (LITES) (never)
Eric Faren (LITES) (never)
Brent Lee (LITES) (never)

Because from the LOOK of it, what you're saying is like "No, no, no, it's not just Block. No, not just one guy, that would be silly, it's not just moved for Block.
.
.
.
.
...there was one other guy too, Sterkx. It was also moved for him."

(Ok, so Pastrana is coming back this year. So three guys.)

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Brian Johnson
Also, it quite likely would not even have been factor at all, save for STPR being one of the "mandatory" events on this year's schedule.

A reword of this is "Maybe it would not have been a factor, but it is a factor". Last year NEFR was moved, also to avoid conflict with the GRC, and NEFR was also on the list of mandatory events. So one can't pretend that the mandatory event status is a small background detail that just happens to be in coincident. So far, there's a 100% causative effect (not correlation, publicly stated causation) of rally events saying they are moving to avoid being on top of a GRC round.

Remember, I'm trying to wrap my head around what wouldn't be at the RALLY if the conflict existed. From what I can see, comparing last year to this year, there would have been two fewer cars at the rally, Block and Sterkx. Or is it that VT Sportscar doesn't have enough trucks to go to two events on the same day? I honestly don't know who they're crewing for in GRC, or if.

So could you make a list for us? Thanks.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Well, how the hell is THAT supposed to Save Rally?

---

Parfois, on fait pas semblant!

I am:
I know:
I am from:

Nobody.
Nothing.
Nowhere.

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Anders Green

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Brian Johnson
Sorry, John, but you're wrong.

I'm open to a more detailed discussion of this.

But first, Merry Christmas.

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Brian Johnson
As mentioned already, the STPR date change is due to more than just Ken.

The last time I talked about this I think the numbers that were thrown out were something like "50 rally people and a dozen of the RA employees who run the GRC" wouldn't be able to make it to a rally in conflict which I find incredulous. I don't think RA has any full time (non-Fogg) employees at this time, which RA people are employed by GRC?Is there any more precise listing of the "what" you could provide?

Here's all the GRC drivers listed on the GRC page, and to the side, their involvement in US rally:
Ken Block (currently active, RA national 2013)
David Sterckx (currently active, RA national 2013)
Dave Mirra (last rally 2012)
Travis Pastrana (last rally 2011)
Pat Moro (last rally 2010)
Tanner Foust (last rally 2009)
Rhys Millen (last rally 2009)
Brian Deegan (1 rally, 2009)
Patrik Sandell (1 rally, 2009)
Stephan Verdier (last rally 2008)
Toomas Heikkinen (never)
Scott Speed (never)
Sverre Isachsen (never)
Steve Arpin (never)
Liam Doran (never)
Bucky Lasek (never)
Bryce Menzies (never)
Timur Timerzyanov (never)
Anton Marklund (never)
Mattias Ekstrom (never)
Nelson Piquet Jr. (never)
Townsend Bell (never)
Guilherme Spinelli (never)
Henning Solberg (never)
Buddy Rice (never)
Mauricio Neves (never)
Edu Marques (never)
Nani Roma (never)
Carlos Sainz (never)
Joni Wiman (LITES) (never)
Sebastian Eriksson (LITES) (never)
Mitchell deJong (LITES) (never)
Kevin Eriksson (LITES) (never)
Alexander Westlund (LITES) (never)
Austin Dyne (LITES) (never)
Geoff Sykes (LITES) (never)
Harry Cheung (LITES) (never)
Halid Avdagic (LITES) (never)
Reinis Nitiss (LITES) (never)
Tyler Benson (LITES) (never)
Eric Faren (LITES) (never)
Brent Lee (LITES) (never)

Because from the LOOK of it, what you're saying is like "No, no, no, it's not just Block. No, not just one guy, that would be silly, it's not just moved for Block.
.
.
.
.
...there was one other guy too, Sterkx. It was also moved for him."

(Ok, so Pastrana is coming back this year. So three guys.)

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Brian Johnson
Also, it quite likely would not even have been factor at all, save for STPR being one of the "mandatory" events on this year's schedule.

A reword of this is "Maybe it would not have been a factor, but it is a factor". Last year NEFR was moved, also to avoid conflict with the GRC, and NEFR was also on the list of mandatory events. So one can't pretend that the mandatory event status is a small background detail that just happens to be in coincident. So far, there's a 100% causative effect (not correlation, publicly stated causation) of rally events saying they are moving to avoid being on top of a GRC round.

Remember, I'm trying to wrap my head around what wouldn't be at the RALLY if the conflict existed. From what I can see, comparing last year to this year, there would have been two fewer cars at the rally, Block and Sterkx. Or is it that VT Sportscar doesn't have enough trucks to go to two events on the same day? I honestly don't know who they're crewing for in GRC, or if.

So could you make a list for us? Thanks.

Anders

Sportscar has a tractor trailer rig for GRC events, I've seen parked out back. It sure is pretty. I didn't see the rig at NEFR this past summer, so the assumption is that they have enough vehicles to cover rally and rallyX simultaneously.

Im trying to picture the phone call to stpr in my head from hoonigan. We want to run stpr but it conflicts with our grc can you move the date back 1 week? They hang up.

stpr person goes to next stpr meeting brings up phone call. Then 20 reasons to change date come out of the wood work from various people that make perfect sense to move date. People at stpr take a vote and bam new date set. But not JUST because of Block! After meeting person makes phone call to Hoonigan and says the date has been changed.

---

First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
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Merry Christmas Anders. Moving the date so 2 or 3 rich guys can play at their 2 hobbies will definitely save rally. They ARE the only reason anybody volunteers, drives out to watch, enters an event, takes time off, books lodging a year ahead of time obviously.

Isn't that why you do everything you do?
I know it is for me.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Can anyone provide estimates of the numbers of pure spectators who go to events that include Block vs comparable events that do not? Can anyone provide a guess as to what proportion of pure spectators are hanging around Block's car at the Park & X-pose-gheys vs around other cars?

If you spend much time with the Great Unwashed (especially via the interwebs) who say that they love rally, play Dirt3 all the time, etc, etc, and ask them to name an actual driver, they all seem to say "Ken Block" first and then at least pause before naming another, if at all. Most have never heard of Loeb and even the folks on Evo-related sites haven't heard of L'Estage or Mäkinen.

In short, I wouldn't mind some more data before concluding that accommodating Block doesn't help "save" rally.

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Reamer
Im trying to picture the phone call to stpr in my head from hoonigan.

Except that any call would have been from Rally America to STPR asking for the change, and that would more than likely have been as a result of conversations RA had with STRC, SoA, Hoonigan and Ford.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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Iowa999
Can anyone provide estimates of the numbers of pure spectators who go to events that include Block vs comparable events that do not?

Scientific estimates? No. This data, to my knowledge, has not been collected.

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Iowa999
In short, I wouldn't mind some more data before concluding that accommodating Block doesn't help "save" rally.

Block showed up in 2005. Since he's arrived, there's been a 23.8% reduction in rally entries in the US. If you define a sport by the people that are participating in it, there is no positive correlation between his involvement and "the saving of the sport".

If you define a sport by the number of people who watch it, somehow "follow" it, then you can only guess. I don't think anyone could say with validity "There are 50% more spectators now on STPR stages than there were in 2004 prior to Block."

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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Anders Green
Block showed up in 2005. Since he's arrived, there's been a 23.8% reduction in rally entries in the US. If you define a sport by the people that are participating in it, there is no positive correlation between his involvement and "the saving of the sport".

Wow. That's awful.

While you can't infer causation from a mere correlation, if there is any (facilitatory) causation, there will usually be a (positive) bivariate correlation. I doubt that he's scaring people away, but he sure doesn't seem to be helping.

Thanks.

Didn't Bill Wood come right out say that he only wants the top competitiors and could care less about the grassroots? Block, no Block..... He has not hurt or helped my rally experience, therefore I could care less what he does. The guy really just wants to drive his Euro bling and sell shoes.... more.power.to.you.block

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crankshaft
Didn't Bill Wood come right out say that he only wants the top competitiors and could care less about the grassroots?

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Bill Wood
I contend there are too many competitors. With money in the sport we could have an elite class

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

I thoroughly enjoyed whooping up on some elitist teams when I raced snow cross before x games came along.

If Bill wants an elite class cool, maybe it'll save their face of rally. It will just open up more for the grass roots people that will never go away and will always grow the sport.


The economy tanking in late 2007 didn't help rally or any sport expand their potential.

I noticed how the SCCA ran things and it seemed quite a following was forming then? New generation....