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Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!

Posted by Anders Green 
McSlider
Zack BalGreezy
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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 09, 2014 11:32PM
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john vanlandingham
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McSlider
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imnotcrazy
More people need to rally for the fun/enjoyment of it. Regardless of the competition. Sure competition makes you want to go faster but how many can really afford to concern themselves with being the champion? Just have a ball but don't ball it up trying to win it all.

While I agree that people should rally just for the fun of rallying, they should still try to win. If you're there to just josh around and drink some beer, then why not just do that at your state forest? They have gravel roads and most of the time people dont go down those roads out of fear of getting stuck.

People entering the rallys should at least try to win; now I'm not saying go balls to the walls till your motor blows, but at least give it a bit of a push. I race to win and just have my fun when its over and recap on it, I don't race anything just to have fun; I want to win and thats my driving factor. But thats just the way I am.cool smiley

Ya know why it says "Troubled teen" by your name? The name you are too paranoid that something will happen if anybody knows your name?

Because teens regardless of wht they can do, rarely have any broader or deeper insights.
race to win..
Bullshit
Race to do something well...
If you're out winning your local moto-cross does it mean shit? No it means nothing.. Go win some outdoor nationals. Go do some Internationals... win some of them and ya know what it means? Nothing. There's World Championship above Internationals..Win some of those and what does it mean? This is a conversation I had once:
"It doesn't mean shit, I drove like shit today"

(me to 2 time World Champion Bengt Åberg from Bollnäs): "Well shit, you won both heats, that's shit?"

2 times World Champion; "I drove like shit, all the placing means is I made less gross blunders than they did, or i cuaght some of my blunders sooner than they did.."

Me "Well OK, sorry I complimented you. Sheesh"...

Winning is about beating other people... If your competition is thin as it s in North America and winniong is your small time goal, you won't learn more than you need to.."

And you'll be wasting time.....

The real task is to drive well and to learn...the battle is between your head and the world (the gravel, the bumps, the turns, the tires-)--everything outside of your head.

Concern about winning is why there are 3 or 4 classes just for the Blue Subie crowd cause they all want a class so they can win something..

Sure like whassis name said, some people just motor down the road at somewhere around 45mph---which I don't understand why or how they do it... Clearly they are understanding something..
But this "I race to WIN!' is bullshit off of movies

Even if you do anything there be assholes around 10 15 years later to shit all over it and brag how they were badder.

Now stop being childish and put your name up like an adult if you want to talk with adults.
Nothing has happened to anybody here because they have their name up.

Okay, first off I didnt race motocross, I race AMA National Enduro B-class 250cc and I still carry sponsors from my last season. So before you go saying "go and compete at the National level" learn what I've done and havent done first off because you make yourself sound stupid.

I do race to win, because winners are the people who get remember. I dont want to prove to myself that I can do it, because I damn well can if I dedicate. I'm here to prove to others that I can, because who gives a shit if I think I'm a good driver? Nobody does, they all look at how many wins you have and your times. I dont say I'm here to win to be clique, I say it because I mean it. While I didnt win any National events, I was still one of the youngest in my class (16 in my first national season) keeping up mid pack or higher depending on how much pre-run time I got.

Being there to win an event puts you in just as fast of a mindset as trying to improve your own time. Knowing that theres 40 or 50 people pushing just as hard if not harder then you makes you drive fast, because you want to win. So it's bullshit for me to say "I race to improve my time". I practice to improve my time, but I race to win or its all for nothing.

Let there be people faster then me in 10 to 15 years. I mean fuck, I hope people aim to be faster then me. I hope some other kid who just got a bike wants to be faster then me. At least they remembered me and aimed to be better, rather then someone running themselves and gets forgotten when he leaves the sport. Let them shit on my scores and brag about how they where faster, because they where still talking about me and wanting to be better.
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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 12:05AM
Quote
Morison
John, you're right on the money with 95% of your post above. Fundamentally, I couldn't agree more.

My best results have always come in situations where I'm focusing on being the best I can be and not worrying about what the other guys are doing.

Conversely, the biggest problems have usually shown up when I've been pulled into a 'contest' or for some reason have been distracted by other people's performance.


Damn Morison ..did you just agree with JVL?





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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 01:17AM
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RALLYRS
Damn Morison ..did you just agree with JVL?
Isn't the first time, won't be the last.
John's agreed with me from time to time as well.



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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 01:18AM
Quote
McSlider
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
McSlider
Quote
imnotcrazy
More people need to rally for the fun/enjoyment of it. Regardless of the competition. Sure competition makes you want to go faster but how many can really afford to concern themselves with being the champion? Just have a ball but don't ball it up trying to win it all.

While I agree that people should rally just for the fun of rallying, they should still try to win. If you're there to just josh around and drink some beer, then why not just do that at your state forest? They have gravel roads and most of the time people dont go down those roads out of fear of getting stuck.

People entering the rallys should at least try to win; now I'm not saying go balls to the walls till your motor blows, but at least give it a bit of a push. I race to win and just have my fun when its over and recap on it, I don't race anything just to have fun; I want to win and thats my driving factor. But thats just the way I am.cool smiley

Ya know why it says "Troubled teen" by your name? The name you are too paranoid that something will happen if anybody knows your name?

Because teens regardless of wht they can do, rarely have any broader or deeper insights.
race to win..
Bullshit
Race to do something well...
If you're out winning your local moto-cross does it mean shit? No it means nothing.. Go win some outdoor nationals. Go do some Internationals... win some of them and ya know what it means? Nothing. There's World Championship above Internationals..Win some of those and what does it mean? This is a conversation I had once:
"It doesn't mean shit, I drove like shit today"

(me to 2 time World Champion Bengt Åberg from Bollnäs): "Well shit, you won both heats, that's shit?"

2 times World Champion; "I drove like shit, all the placing means is I made less gross blunders than they did, or i cuaght some of my blunders sooner than they did.."

Me "Well OK, sorry I complimented you. Sheesh"...

Winning is about beating other people... If your competition is thin as it s in North America and winniong is your small time goal, you won't learn more than you need to.."

And you'll be wasting time.....

The real task is to drive well and to learn...the battle is between your head and the world (the gravel, the bumps, the turns, the tires-)--everything outside of your head.

Concern about winning is why there are 3 or 4 classes just for the Blue Subie crowd cause they all want a class so they can win something..

Sure like whassis name said, some people just motor down the road at somewhere around 45mph---which I don't understand why or how they do it... Clearly they are understanding something..
But this "I race to WIN!' is bullshit off of movies

Even if you do anything there be assholes around 10 15 years later to shit all over it and brag how they were badder.

Now stop being childish and put your name up like an adult if you want to talk with adults.
Nothing has happened to anybody here because they have their name up.

Okay, first off I didnt race motocross, I race AMA National Enduro B-class 250cc and I still carry sponsors from my last season. So before you go saying "go and compete at the National level" learn what I've done and havent done first off because you make yourself sound stupid.

I do race to win, because winners are the people who get remember. I dont want to prove to myself that I can do it, because I damn well can if I dedicate. I'm here to prove to others that I can, because who gives a shit if I think I'm a good driver? Nobody does, they all look at how many wins you have and your times. I dont say I'm here to win to be clique, I say it because I mean it. While I didnt win any National events, I was still one of the youngest in my class (16 in my first national season) keeping up mid pack or higher depending on how much pre-run time I got.

Being there to win an event puts you in just as fast of a mindset as trying to improve your own time. Knowing that theres 40 or 50 people pushing just as hard if not harder then you makes you drive fast, because you want to win. So it's bullshit for me to say "I race to improve my time". I practice to improve my time, but I race to win or its all for nothing.

Let there be people faster then me in 10 to 15 years. I mean fuck, I hope people aim to be faster then me. I hope some other kid who just got a bike wants to be faster then me. At least they remembered me and aimed to be better, rather then someone running themselves and gets forgotten when he leaves the sport. Let them shit on my scores and brag about how they where faster, because they where still talking about me and wanting to be better.

Kid, you're a fucking kid. For fucks sake it doesn't matter if its B enduro. or B hare scambles or B motocross, or a total newb at rally or 40 years competing. You missed the point entirely.
And if you weren't being a snot and put your name up like you're proud of who you are rather than hiding, we could just look at results...and say "Good job ___________ (your name), kewl".. I don't "look stupid" because I don't know what you've done; you're hiding who you are... You're not a person until you put a name up, you're just a made up "persona".

I do know a little about enduros, just a tad...A class in a few Nationals and 2 Six Day qualifiers---didn't enter "Intent" class since I knew I wasn't going to go---or get picked since that happened behind closed doors---in fact my las ever bike race of any sort was Trask mountain 6 Days Qualifier...then I entered Vet A class cause I was ancient and in my 40s. And my favorite event of all the 20+ years on bikes was a 24 Hour International in Savigny-Beaune--Côte D'Or, south of Dijon, France.. we did 2nd in 125 (never raced a 125 before or after but hey when they're paying you and they give you a 125 and say you're the team captain, you say mais oui!, Right?) and I think it was 13th total out of 72 teams from all over Europe and 5 riders from USA.
But that was really a big huge 24 hour full gas moto-cross really, and those Qualifiers were normal Euro format which is exactly like Special Stage Rally, with transits and ES or SS "special sections" where its full gas and to the second timing.
it seems US Enduros have gone to something similar, but I saw a sample time card and it still showed at the top "24 mph Average"
Are these Enduros you've been doing Qualifier or timing keep or 'restart" events.?

All this aside hate to waste time trying to teach you but you know what? That other guy on you're minute, and those guys a minute ahead and a minute or 10 behind---they're not next to you, how do you know you're beating them....and faster? If its a time keeper enduro how do you be faster? More on time, in the middle of your minute but faster? he has the same problem you do: the ground he's on.. You do what you can, he does what he can, whoever does it BETTER---and has more grit--will do better..

Hey as a B rider, do you feel short changed not doing the same distance as A guys?
Some rallys have traditionally fucked the "Regional" guys and claim "they don't want more miles" and run them 2-3 SS less than the BIG NATIONAL Champ-peen.
Which is rediculous...
What sort of miles you do?



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2014 01:28AM by john vanlandingham.
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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 06:55AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Some rallys have traditionally fucked the "Regional" guys and claim "they don't want more miles" and run them 2-3 SS less than the BIG NATIONAL Champ-peen.
Which is rediculous...
What sort of miles you do?

Curious what rallies have actually done that?
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Anders Green
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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 08:26AM
Quote
MConte05
Curious what rallies have actually done that?

When scca national events started allowing regional competitors to also compete, this was common practice. So, pick a ra national, it probably did that in the 90s.

In other news, I thought crowdfunding had already saved, rally, but, in new news, crowdfunding will save rally!
http://www.gofundme.com/supportfetelateam

Anders



Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.
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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 08:30AM
Quote
Anders Green
Quote
MConte05
Curious what rallies have actually done that?

When scca national events started allowing regional competitors to also compete, this was common practice. So, pick a ra national, it probably did that in the 90s.

In other news, I thought crowdfunding had already saved, rally, but, in new news, crowdfunding will save rally!
http://www.gofundme.com/supportfetelateam

Anders



One of the best rally drivers!!! The self promotion is probably the only thing that turns me off to rally. Well maybe recce too... i despise recce; even though i do it for some reason... spending 10 hours putting along is sometimes worth it for those 2-3 corners in the entire routebook that have shitty notes and could send you off the road.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2014 08:33AM by czwalga.
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imnotcrazy
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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 08:31AM
Quote
MConte05
Quote
john vanlandingham
Some rallys have traditionally fucked the "Regional" guys and claim "they don't want more miles" and run them 2-3 SS less than the BIG NATIONAL Champ-peen.
Which is rediculous...
What sort of miles you do?

Curious what rallies have actually done that?
If I'm correct CARS has done that for quite a while.



Don Kennedy
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imnotcrazy
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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 08:35AM
Quote
Anders Green
Quote
MConte05
Curious what rallies have actually done that?

When scca national events started allowing regional competitors to also compete, this was common practice. So, pick a ra national, it probably did that in the 90s.

In other news, I thought crowdfunding had already saved, rally, but, in new news, crowdfunding will save rally!
http://www.gofundme.com/supportfetelateam

Anders
Interesting that the title on that page is "Live your dream". I think it's more like "Help them to live their dream". Whatever.



Don Kennedy
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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 08:37AM
Quote
imnotcrazy
Quote
Anders Green
Quote
MConte05
Curious what rallies have actually done that?

When scca national events started allowing regional competitors to also compete, this was common practice. So, pick a ra national, it probably did that in the 90s.

In other news, I thought crowdfunding had already saved, rally, but, in new news, crowdfunding will save rally!
http://www.gofundme.com/supportfetelateam

Anders
Interesting that the title on that page is "Live your dream". I think it's more like "Help them to live their dream". Whatever.

My dream is to get paid to rally. And to have unicorns.



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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 08:40AM
P.S. Looking at the page, I'm trying to understand what this means:

"West Virginia Rally !st Place Overall" in 2012. 1st place? Pretty sure that's not the case. He WAS going quick, but is shown as a DNF from not finishing a 24mi stage on the 1st night.
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zeeto
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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 08:48AM
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imnotcrazy
Quote
MConte05
Quote
john vanlandingham
Some rallys have traditionally fucked the "Regional" guys and claim "they don't want more miles" and run them 2-3 SS less than the BIG NATIONAL Champ-peen.
Which is rediculous...
What sort of miles you do?

Curious what rallies have actually done that?
If I'm correct CARS has done that for quite a while.
It's just a single stage, and the super special at that, but since we weren't signed up as a National entry at Perce Neige our rally ended after SS16, while the national entries ended after SS17.
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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 08:58AM
Self-Promotion was a big section of the Ski Sawmill rally school along with trailer safety (right Don?).
In Canada's defense on the shorter Regional length, it's designed to not force newbies to purchase lights (If I'm wrong, Keith'll correct me).
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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 10:12AM
Yes, every Canadian Rally Championship event has a regional event that runs fewer stages. Sometimes it might be a single stage, most time it is a few stages an possibly a significant difference in distance.

No, nobody's getting fucked.

- The regional entry fee is lower
- The driving force is making the regional championship more affordable and easier to compete in. Often, teams running regional only can take one less day off, will spend less on fuel/tires etc.
- Entering the national event still lets you score points in the regional AND get all the mileage.
- Some, but not all, events have an option to enter an additional 'non-points' regional to get the full distance of the event.
- As an organiser who ran a regional event with 151km of stage, including two 34 km stages (turnaround) that were each run twice I can assure you there was a strong push from most of the competitors to REDUCE the stage mileage.
- That's not stopping me from planning ~136km of stage for Big White this year, with two passes of a 28km stage. Hopefully we'll get the roads we're looking at!

Randy, I'd probably count that as AMONG the reasons at one point, but far from the only reason and not really a reality today. I think any regional team would be hard pressed to run any of the national events today without lights.



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Re: Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!
July 10, 2014 11:41AM
Quote
MConte05
Quote
john vanlandingham
Some rallys have traditionally fucked the "Regional" guys and claim "they don't want more miles" and run them 2-3 SS less than the BIG NATIONAL Champ-peen.
Which is rediculous...
What sort of miles you do?

Curious what rallies have actually done that?

As far as I can tell it was only the WA and OR events that didn't as a routine thing..

The whole thing was stupid and essentially dishonest..
We maybe had the drive to recruit more people possibly because the mono-mania of John Nagel to have Dubya Arsey happen in WA Nagel was fixated on that and that enthusiasm rubbed off.
But every so called "National" so called "Pro" out here as far back as at least '83 and doubtless earlier had 2 separate concurrent "Divisional" events which ran same roads same everything..

Naturally there was among the so called "Pro" entries a ton of dual-entries so some could cherry-pick a plaque, and that kinda sucked....but the "Divisional" guys not doing say the last 3 stages or 30 miles less was in some cases clearly a way to drive in more so called "National" entries...(to get a so called "National Pro" licence you had to finish 2 Divisionals and we'd see STPR organisers have their "Ski Saw Mill Licence school deal which had class-room---which somehow counted as a full Divisional---then guys driving around in a parking lot and an access road counting as a full Divisional and hey! Presto! National licence!
And those guys would all eneter the "National" (and pay the National entry and do nothing resultswise)...

There was no rule saying the concurrent events must be shorter but the way each of the organisers used the same phrasing, same exact words "Well, you see, most divisional cars aren't prepared as well as the PRO cars so they don't want to go the full distance as the National blah blah blah" indicated that those saying word-for-word same thing had discussed and worked out a "Party Line"...which was flat bullshit and shameless that otherwise good people would look you in the eye and repeat this shit when I never encounted 1 Divisional guy who didn't want MORE miles, MORE SS because they were a) new and enthusiastic and full of passion and b) they instinctively knew what they needed was more practice.

But on the other hand it would be had to pretend the Champignonskit held any "prestige" if it was entered by 6 people total.


(That where I got the idea of all events count--all award "National Champ Peen Points" with 100 SS miles being the standard... so if it was a Rally sprint with 18 miles, you win you get points x 0.18 and if it was a small event with 37 miles, points time 0.37 and if it was 100 miles, points times 1 and say somebody wanted to make an event like some even into the 90s did with MORE SS miles, say 180 SS miles, kinda in an effort to lure people with the chance to make more points, that would be points x 1.8...If its really a joke and it always has been, then make EVERYTHING a "National" kinda like here we're all not just moderators but variations on SUPER-moderators and "Mega-Moderators" etc.. Since its all a joke.)



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