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A1337STI
Very fast.. but the first 3-4 cars seem to be taking a bad line (apex anyone?)

take the first car for example . amazing corner entry speed. but do you notice how he loses velocity as he's fighting to stay on the road.

2nd car as well.

cars #3-4 make it work (still appears to be apexing too early and throwing the car sideways a bit too late)

car #5 goes for an even Earlier apex, and throws his car sideways a bit later.. does not stay on the road.

Now its MUCH MUCH better / Easier to coach someone who has the speed, when and where to reel it in a little bit.



its very hard to take someone who is slow , and coach them to drive faster.

very cool video still, but it makes it look like the F-cup is filled with people who just want to throw their cars into corners at a high rate of speed but don't understand a racing line.

wow the black and white bmw took a good line, was very sideways and was visually / noticeably faster down the straight away than the first 8 cars

then a few cars later a black and green bmw goes for an early apex (or no apex) and turns in too late. also almost goes off the road.

the entry speeds are VERY impressive. makes me wish i had a rally car so cheap compared to my expandable income so i wouldn't drive like a chicken :O

Considering that many of these guys are faster than anybody in North America, and considering theres 60+ in the class and 1st--a Volvo 240 again---to 14th are within 1 minute at the finish

stop a second. Alex have you been in an event where 1st thru 14th are all within 1 minute? Those events you've mostly done barely get 14 cars and there's HOURS difference..

When things are tight and intense the pressure goes up...pressure goes up, even "Pros"--which in contemporary American means guys that piss away railroad cars full of money----fuck up.

How many Dubya Arsey events did "merika's Rally Super Star do before he finished SS3 without flipping and doing "Super-rally Reset"?
And that's with cars just a little smidgen better prepared than these---and he wasn't even as quick as the best you see here.

What I'm saying is seriously, you say

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filled with people who just want to throw their cars into corners at a high rate of speed but don't understand a racing line.

reflect: could it be --just possibly---is there a less than zero chance that YOU don't understand something about why they drive so hard--and take the lines they do, and that er uh, the term "racing line" has a meaning and applies to racing--and racing is the world used WORLD WIDE, even in India even in Japan to mean ROAD RACE, closed circuit asphalt...ya know the stuff all those pansy girly men whiners do..

And since that's what the word means you saying "don't they know the racing line" sounds like a serious fundamental misunderstanding somewhere..

Not dissing you, mang but doood you sound like there's something wrong.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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A1337STI
Very fast.. but the first 3-4 cars seem to be taking a bad line (apex anyone?)

the entry speeds are VERY impressive. makes me wish i had a rally car so cheap compared to my expandable income so i wouldn't drive like a chicken :O

One Finn put it basically like this, "These are blind rallies. As you go over a crest if you lift and you didn't need to you just lost time to the 60 people that didn't lift. If you don't lift and you should have, you have to try to save it and hope you don't wreck."

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Grant Hughes

Well i'm guessing the cars that are taking a 'bad line' are not the cars winning.

and John, instead of me thinking to think harder, i think you need to try and not think so hard.

I totally get why they drive so hard, and i get why going fast is more important than the 'perfect line'

On a race track, where you see the same 20 corners, 1,000s of times , and you end up in a race that has qualifying, yellow flags, etc Its not enough to have high entry speed . you also have to be on the "shortest course" possible. so to speak.

in Rally you might only see each corner once. and if your entry speeds are high , your average speed is high, you set a low time, and win.

...

not sure how to even word this.

What i don't get is how they are so care free , to attack corners like that, as if they knew they were gonna die tomorrow, or balling up a car just doesn't matter to them ?

probably a massive flaw in my own logic.

I figure if i crash hard my car and roll cage is toast.

if my car and cage is toast , i'll be out of the sport for a few years, and it just feels that since I have too much time and money poured into it, that i couldn't stomach taking a hit like that.

and when you watch videos of most rallies here in america, IMO, it looks like i'm not alone in that thinking... Yet i watch this F-cup video and it seems like no one there is really *overly* concerned about balling it up..

Hope i don't get one, but maybe i need an epic crash / roll with minimal repair costs to show me how wrong i am thinking.

But i am the type of driver who started off really really slow, and i slowly get a little faster every time i race... A friend of mine is the other way, throws his car into corners really really fast and .. oh what ever happens happens.. Got got nearly as quick as me on Grass-o-cross in just 1 season (i had 3 or 4 at that point) but he blew up his motor and transmission and has been taken out of the sport for 3 years now. He was (still is sorta) working on a stage build, but because he was making payments on a new broken car, he bought a 2nd car (well 3rd) and spread his money to thin to make any real progress on either of his project cars..

blah ... hence me asking if its just less days of work for the average person over there to buy and afford a day of rally.


If i didn't have Credit card debt.. . I could probably buy a low spec rally car (built) after saving up for 6 months and afford to do 1 rally. Maybe they are just way cooler (risky) than I am , or maybe it's not as much of their income to do the same ... ?


Like if someone just Gave me a rally car for free, no strings attached, I would drive it more aggressively than i drive my own car.. or if someone promised me a free repair no matter how bad i crashed.. i would drive my own car harder.

Maybe i just need to pretend I'm racing someone else's car next rally? lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2014 05:38PM by A1337STI.

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A1337STI
Hope i don't get one, but maybe i need an epic crash / roll with minimal repair costs to show me how wrong i am thinking.

I did this and if it weren't for the rusted rear fenders and bondo work, this crash would've cost me a sum total of zero dollars (since I had a spare rear toe link). But because some bondo cracked, I got it fixed and re-sprayed for about $300.

I hear you on the not driving over the 'edge' so that you can go out and do more rallies...and when I see video of myself I constantly shake my head and wish I didn't care so much and drove harder. There's got to be a balance, and it's much cheaper sneaking up on it from the side of not crashing.

Dave

i finally realized why there are so many subaru's in RA. They have a contingency for just showing up. 500 dolla holla and 300 dolla holla. So like a free set of rally tires each event. dadgum

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I am not an alien

Koolaid on specialstage just an FYI

Ya, i think that's only for national events though (or regionals that are part of a national)


hey does anyone have any links to some of these F-cup rallies with an entry list and end results ? i'm curious as to how many DNFs they have and what not. and their class rules / cup rules ...

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A1337STI
What i don't get is how they are so care free , to attack corners like that, as if they knew they were gonna die tomorrow, or balling up a car just doesn't matter to them ?

if my car and cage is toast , i'll be out of the sport for a few years, and it just feels that since I have too much time and money poured into it, that i couldn't stomach taking a hit like that.

When you wreck you're car you start looking for another $1000-2000 Impreza and then a cage builder willing to do it for under $4k and wherever will you find the time to do all the work.

When they wreck a car they probably know six or seven other people rallying the same car within a few miles of them and can probably find a spare shell quickly. Then they might spend a few weeks with a tight knit group of friends and family prepping the new shell and building the new car.

I have seen other top Group F teams with a second shell ready to go and basically sitting in shop as a caged body in white. They didn't even miss an event after they crashed the first one. They switched from a Starlet to a BMW after crashing the second car and I think basically took a season off to build and sort that car as I recall.

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Grant Hughes

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NoCoast
When they wreck a car they probably know six or seven other people rallying the same car within a few miles of them and can probably find a spare shell quickly. Then they might spend a few weeks with a tight knit group of friends and family prepping the new shell and building the new car.

Backup rally cars will save rally!

When i built my rally car i had the most improbably awesome deal ever.. my friend who's a Welder (ase certified and other crap) was told by his boss "business is bad right now i can't afford to pay you next week, but you can use the shop if you want"

so i asked him how much to do my cage and he just wanted extra tubing to cage his own car. so i spent $1,000 on tubing. I also picked out a (high end to me) $50 bottle of scotch as a thank you gift.

but ya... I get the idea from watching the video that needing to reshell for some of those guys was of no concern. If i had that same setup i would probably drive harder too.. (I think lol)

I can see how 50-60 of them end up with in a minute of each other... cause they all DNF :p at the end of that video all in the same turn , there's like 6+ cars all dnfed lined up in a row... no matter how good you might think Those particular drivers are, you can't win a rally that you don't finish.

though i can definitely see how by learning "on the other side of the grip envelope" you will develop your skills Much more quickly at becoming quick.

mid way through 2015 .. maybe i can find someone's abandoned caged impreza for insanely cheap ... lol well i can dream anyways

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A1337STI
Ya, i think that's only for national events though (or regionals that are part of a national)


hey does anyone have any links to some of these F-cup rallies with an entry list and end results ? i'm curious as to how many DNFs they have and what not. and their class rules / cup rules ...

Here's the Jari-Pekka ralli Grant posted the video..

I'll find you link to some Finnish websites so you can tell them they're driving the wrong cars, that you started with FWD therefore so should they.

http://racingmaailma.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/F-CUP-YLEINEN.pdf

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
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Exactly, just like i Always say , ignore what cars are "locally affordable" just always just buy FWD.

Exactly what i always write, i'm so glad you are a shinning example of perfect reading comprehension ... :p /Sarcasm

anywho. hey this is pretty cool. 37.8 Miles total , 46 entries 26 finish that's a 56.6% finish rate (or is that Finnish ?) which is rather low .

But yes the top of their results is a much tighter spread than i recall seeing at a north american rally event. course i can't think of a US rally with that low of mileage ... seed 9 ?

last year 16 competitors 15 finishers , HUGE spread in times. HUGE ... winner with a 30:46 if you were 1 minute off his pace, 2nd place. 1 minute off the F-cup pace 15th place

that's just so night and day.. 94% versus 57%. (can't really just compare 2 single rallies like this... but i did :p)


I do completely agree rally needs a super cheap formula on how to get onto stage... And how to stay on stage after a total ! we would certainly see more people driving harder.. we would see more people crash and dnf, but also more people becoming really fast drivers.

John, did you follow gaylord van at all? http://www.thinmanfatmanracing.com/


(damn i forgot how straight / fast / "fun" and highway like that stage is) This guy is awesome. very fast, seems to have taken a que from the F-cup guys and just drives really really hard... in a fuck it let me really figure out how fast this car can go.
but he totaled his car on his 6th rally (only his 2nd DNF) and he's been out for about 4 years now.

that's what happens when us americans try to drive it F-cup style .

and that's why rallies are filled with "slow / Sunday drivers" Like me



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2014 05:35PM by A1337STI.

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A1337STI


I do completely agree rally needs a super cheap formula on how to get onto stage... And how to stay on stage after a total ! we would certainly see more people driving harder.. we would see more people crash and dnf, but also more people becoming really fast drivers.

k lets get this straight, rally will not become cheaper. So you see how those guys that race over there probably get props for wrecking their old european shitboxes pushing it to the limit. Well apparently that sounds like fun to them. So we need to make crashing your car in america seem like a bad ass thing to do Ken Block wrecks more than dana patrick nascar lady and he has fans worldwide because he knows how to drive a car past its limit and make it go slower. Whereas the top WRC dudes know how to drive a car on the limit and make it go faster. But who know's Ogier and Loeb and who knows block. Apparently crashing is the shiznit.

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I am not an alien

Koolaid on specialstage just an FYI

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A1337STI
but he totaled his car on his 6th rally (only his 2nd DNF) and he's been out for about 4 years now.

That's the bucket list effect possibly. He did a handful of events. It's alot easier to go do anything else than build another rally car. Scott Leonard, similar but he built a second car, got fed up with VW gearbox issues so tore it down to upgrade to better gearbox. Then started racing mountain bikes and found it fun, cheap, and can do it regularly without paying huge entry fees and massive tows. He's still trying to sell his partially assembled Golf.

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Grant Hughes

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john vanlandingham
...er uh, the term "racing line" has a meaning and applies to racing--and racing is the world used WORLD WIDE...

I suspect, because of the context, that he meant RALLY racing line...

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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Morison

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john vanlandingham
...er uh, the term "racing line" has a meaning and applies to racing--and racing is the world used WORLD WIDE...

I suspect, because of the context, that he meant RALLY racing line...

how am I supposed to guess what people who make up phrases mean?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.