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tdrrally
i would like to see safety mods for performance tsd cars like cages (bolt-in) harnesses and helmets
at the end of the day or weekend i want to go home even if the cars is total i can buy an other car

There's very few people who are going to do this. Sure it may suit you, but I doubt you get anyone to participate; and organize.

All or nothing in my opinion. You either dont need a cage and run a TSD, or you do and run a stage rally.

I've asked about varying levels of safety equipment for varying levels of speed/classes. Insurance said no. You could try it in another country, but the discussion of that topic has been closed for us as far as the US is concerned.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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czwalga

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tdrrally
i would like to see safety mods for performance tsd cars like cages (bolt-in) harnesses and helmets
at the end of the day or weekend i want to go home even if the cars is total i can buy an other car

There's very few people who are going to do this. Sure it may suit you, but I doubt you get anyone to participate; and organize.

All or nothing in my opinion. You either dont need a cage and run a TSD, or you do and run a stage rally.

if the price is 1/3 and you can use and old rally or racing car i would bet lots of people would
i know if i had a historic rally car that i did not want to risk totaling and i'm not willing to pay the price for an entry fee to a full stage event, in a heart beat!

svra and other classic road racing groupes have "races" that are more speed tours of a given track

but if the insurance folks are not will to underwrite it, its mute at this point

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

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tdrrally
if the price is 1/3 and you can use and old rally or racing car i would bet lots of people would
i know if i had a historic rally car that i did not want to risk totaling and i'm not willing to pay the price for an entry fee to a full stage event, in a heart beat!

these guys are still running (maybe?) pretty much what you are talking about: https://www.facebook.com/groups/LRRacingUSA/

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-KTurner
Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel.

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john vanlandingham

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mothra
I have no idea who this person is



but I am confident that this type of interaction on the internet in rally discussions is not saving rally in any way. I know let's make sure to belittle new people to the rally community when they have ideas. Who the hell is jayn_j on SS. Sounds like a total Ass.

I believe he is the same as this guy who has been asked several times to quit playing cutsie and be a man and put his full name and location up...and in fact just asked again today---here its "captdownshift' there jayn-j and I believe its Dave Zajano from somewhere up in the Maryland side of DC.

jayn_j is Jay Nemeth-johannes, who afaik has been involved/participating from the SCCA side for a while... I *thought* he participated over here as well, but can't find him currently.

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

one of my favorite events was ohio valley forest rally/ sunriser 400
i would love to run that event again even as a TSD

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

Generally speaking, if you require permissions and closed roads then you need insurance. If you just run a 'bootleg' event then not so much. There are lots of TSD events around here, some tarmac, some gravel or mixed, some vintage collector cars. Having an event that knowingly lets you drive agressively or squirrel around might be hard to do.

I've talked to NRS, RA and my fellow organizers about some sort of transition event around here. We have a pretty large RallyX contingent between Washington and Oregon, many are crew and workers for rally also. Seems like a natural 'breeding ground' for rally racing (just for JV) er I mean stage rally. We haven't hit on a plan that actually works in real life. There aren't enough old rally cars around to make it affordable to put on, slow events are plentiful, street cars are way to fast, lawyers are way too blood thirsty. Desiring an event isn't enough, it has to make sense from participation, organzing, financial and risk concerns. Pretty large nut to crack.

i'm looking at all those old road racers caged and looking for a new road to race
with out the investment of going stage rally

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

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tdrrally
i'm looking at all those old road racers caged and looking for a new road to race
with out the investment of going stage rally

Chumpcar and World Racing League.

While it would be cool to have a series that uses lower prep level cars playing out in the woods, even if someone could get insurance, if there was a major accident it could have ramifications into the rally world. I don't see it being worth the risk knowing how hard organizers have to work to put on the current events we have.

Honestly...the barriers to entry really aren't all that bad. Buy a used-but-still-legal stage rally car for say $5k, managed to break nothing, and by your 3rd event, the car isn't what you've spent the most money on. I'm not seeing how a "TSD+" fixes much of anything about the travel expenses and the days away from work (compared to a stage rally...assuming you skip the recce day).

Dave

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DaveK

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tdrrally
i'm looking at all those old road racers caged and looking for a new road to race
with out the investment of going stage rally

Chumpcar and World Racing League.

While it would be cool to have a series that uses lower prep level cars playing out in the woods, even if someone could get insurance, if there was a major accident it could have ramifications into the rally world. I don't see it being worth the risk knowing how hard organizers have to work to put on the current events we have.

Honestly...the barriers to entry really aren't all that bad. Buy a used-but-still-legal stage rally car for say $5k, managed to break nothing, and by your 3rd event, the car isn't what you've spent the most money on. I'm not seeing how a "TSD+" fixes much of anything about the travel expenses and the days away from work (compared to a stage rally...assuming you skip the recce day).

Dave

Exactly. If the roads have to be shut down, the costs are going to be near the cost of a full stage rally. Why limit it to a 'fast tsd'.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2014 01:03PM by czwalga.

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DaveK
Honestly...the barriers to entry really aren't all that bad.

Depends where you live. All of the cheap rallycars are officially gone from Alberta it seems, same with BC. The last two good deals were a NX2000 and a Sentra SER (the older boxy one). Both decent starter fwd cars. Neither has seen stage so far this year. The sentra was a true, well built rallycar that was a crazy deal, wish I had bought it.

I was going to build a civic rally car. Then when I realized I could build a Subaru (which IMO is more durable) for the same price, I dropped that idea.

how about a tsd between a couple or three good rally sprint roads
or a couple/three road courses

i might have $5k in the car i'm building now when i'm finished , not that a rally car is ever finished

but i plan to be able to rally,hill climb, road race, ect with it

i may ask some of the coal companies around here to see if we could use their private land for a rally sprint, then as part of the event have a ceremonial start and finish on the boulevard
down side is most of the roads i have seem are better suited to cross country rallies than stage rallies.

but good p.r. never hurts

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

An other idea that Could work , is partner with a someone else who is already closing a road down and getting insurance.

I asked the Spectre 341 hill climb organizer if he would be open to the idea of a rally sprint being ran on Toll road , which connects to 341 , the road he gets closed down and insured. he seemed very open to it. (Extending his insurance to a 2nd road)

problem i ran into was i really enjoy running in that hill climb and i couldn't do both.

also he gets insurance for cars with out any safety prep and closes down a road. So it s possible !
He also had a death at one of his events (happened in the porsche GT3 that had a roll cage and the driver had a fire suit) and the event ran next year . so at least the county / insurance company were okay to do that , even after a death.

and it hasn't had any fall out for stage rally either. (Helps that his event is a hill climb and does not have the word rally in it)

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A1337STI
An other idea that Could work , is partner with a someone else who is already closing a road down and getting insurance.

I asked the Spectre 341 hill climb organizer if he would be open to the idea of a rally sprint being ran on Toll road , which connects to 341 , the road he gets closed down and insured. he seemed very open to it. (Extending his insurance to a 2nd road)

problem i ran into was i really enjoy running in that hill climb and i couldn't do both.

also he gets insurance for cars with out any safety prep and closes down a road. So it s possible !
He also had a death at one of his events (happened in the porsche GT3 that had a roll cage and the driver had a fire suit) and the event ran next year . so at least the county / insurance company were okay to do that , even after a death.

and it hasn't had any fall out for stage rally either. (Helps that his event is a hill climb and does not have the word rally in it)

Has the race occurred recently? I was looking into it a few years ago and thought they ran into $$ issues and skipped a race or two.

Also, we had another tarmac hillclimb in CO this past summer. They had a class for fully prepped race cars, and for those with no cages they did a lead-follow deal. The guy obtaining the event insurance (owns a racing school) had to stay in front of the group of 5 cars and lead them at a 'reasonable' pace...which by the end of the event was pretty damn quick. My car sat broken in the pits all day (with me working on a lower back tan), so I can't comment on how things ran from a competitor standpoint.

Dave

nope it hasn't ran in 2 years now. could be delayed fall out from the unfortunate incident , seemed like it was a go 2 years but then had a scheduling conflict and he didn't think he would have enough course workers .

hard to say for sure, sounded like he was footing most of the bill for the event, cause the entry fee was only $341 . and he had a spectre 341 RV there and several of his cars ... so it couldn't have been cheap to put on, and probably was used for marketing purposes ?