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MConte05


It's called rally RACING for a reason.

That reason is because noobs in America, alone in the whole world, call it "rally racing"...
The entire rest of the world calls it RALLY or at most
"Rally competition"

The irony is so many who call it rally racing have done neither rally, or racing, or are collectively so slow it the competition is to not nod off.



will save rally racing!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2014 12:02PM by john vanlandingham.

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EricW

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imnotcrazy

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MConte05
Most people do. Bottom half of the field at any rally event is just "rallying" through the woods going recce speeds.

It's called rally RACING for a reason.

So what? If they're paying their entry fees and keeping the sport alive and enjoying themselves. So what? Maybe they can't or don't want to take a chance of balling the car up so they can spend that money to come back to another event and enjoy themselves some more. BTDT.

I doubt the Anders data machine has the ability to answer this question, but I wonder what the tenure of the competitors looks like associated to starting (or finishing) position.

My guess is (generally) that the top 10 make up the most entries-by-competitior' and the bottom 50-60% are those that fall into the 1 or 2 events and out group.

Now THAT would be pretty interesting data for sure!

I'll never be able to understand those who continue to come back race after race after race only to end up barely in the top 10 of their class, or anywhere close to the top half of the field. But some people like competiton (me) and others I guess just like the whole camadarie and spending time in the woods driving around. Different strokes for different folks. Nothing wrong with it, but just pointing out that a majority of the drivers already don't seem to be really "racing" in the sense that they are trying to push themselves to be faster. If it beefs up entry lists and brings more money, more power to them, and always glad to have them there.

I would use the RA speed factor as a measure of how fast you are compared to the others in the championship. I didnt say use the speedfactor to crown a champion. I said use it to see where you stand in the country. For the championship to be meaningful it needs to be because they were the fastest most consitantly in the nation.

Yes in thoery you can beat Block 1 event and have a higher speed factor but in general if a person has ran a few events its a pretty good factor on where you stand in the nation.

---

First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

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czwalga
6?? There's GC shells with just metal work for sale for more than 6k. I hate that rule because I wouldnt sell my car save for some absurd offer. Takes a long time to build a new one; this isn't junk yard beater racing.

OK, 12.
The point being that the only way you'll limit spending - in reality - is a claimer class where the car could get yanked from your hands for a per-determined price.
I suppose a spec championship where there is a single car supplier (Drive DMack, as an example) would be another way.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

You dont need to really limit spending as much as write rules that make over spending not really have a huge affect on performance. Pump gas, weight and tire rules will close the speed gap on just about any spending.

Sure you can spend 30k on an engine. An engine to make power needs compression to have comprssion you need Octane.

---

First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

The old RA speedfactor was easy for me to follow.
M/Diggins and Antoine finish a rally in 100 minutes and you take 125 so you get a 75
and it was averaged over rallys you finished, I think, sorta.
Then they changed it and I never looked at it again.
Rallyscoring still uses it but on a per rally basis, not a yearly score, simple math.

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Reamer
You dont need to really limit spending as much as write rules that make over spending not really have a huge affect on performance. Pump gas, weight and tire rules will close the speed gap on just about any spending.

Sure you can spend 30k on an engine. An engine to make power needs compression to have comprssion you need Octane.

Yep...Same for bewst which is just compression in another form...
It's sooooooooooooooooo simple to make the rule and bang! there goes the NEED for crazy swap them every time edge of destruction motors..
Enforcing it: "Party Line is "we can't be 100%. Therefore we can't do anything".

Right, nothing is 100% certain but something and something, I forget.. But you can do soemthing

My favorite is to made a press release--naturally for immediate release (eeeeew! get a Kleenex----) announcing that the title "National Champion" whill be for DRIVERS and "makes' or "Maufacturers Champ-peen-ship" will be for Manufacturers.
POINTS for National Driver's title will be awarded only in 2wd classes...

The rich guys can keep buying their 200 or whatever thousand buck car and 20-30k bill per event for service and they acn win and be Numbah Juan and win Manufacturs title...
But drivers points in the classes where driving is still primary.

Then see what ego drives people to do.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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MConte05
I'll never be able to understand those who continue to come back race after race after race only to end up barely in the top 10 of their class, or anywhere close to the top half of the field. But some people like competiton (me) and others I guess just like the whole camadarie and spending time in the woods driving around. Different strokes for different folks. Nothing wrong with it, but just pointing out that a majority of the drivers already don't seem to be really "racing" in the sense that they are trying to push themselves to be faster. If it beefs up entry lists and brings more money, more power to them, and always glad to have them there.

Sometimes the problem is that people have spent the last one, two, six, ten years building their car. They are afraid to wreck it so they never push that hard. Those trees sure are scarier at 35 than at 25.

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Grant Hughes

So when 'W2' racing whose W2 do we use to determine the rules? Outlaw sequential gear boxes, dog boxes? 6 speeds? How about suspension? Outlaw Riegers, Ohlins, JVAB? Off the shelf only? OL was determined to be a regional class, that alone eliminated a bunch of possible 'threats' from the obscenely wealthy national guys. Several years in we've not really seen any big issues that I am aware of but there has been some pretty good competition.

We're still not seeing anyone spend a fortune in G2 or G5. Funny thing is a sanctioning bidy is damned if they make a rule and damned if they don't.

Someone always has a bigger paycheck, prettier wife, smarter kid, better job, faster car. Where does it all stop?

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heymagic
We're still not seeing anyone spend a fortune in G2 or G5. Funny thing is a sanctioning bidy is damned if they make a rule and damned if they don't.

Was the reference to G2 and G5 meant as a comparison to the regional OL class, or are you also including the 2WD national class?

Seems to me like like a Turbo R2 Fiesta is getting up there cost-wise and Matt has been upgrading the hell out of his BMW this year. I'd consider both of those cars to be spending a fortune compared to most in the 2wd classes, no?

Dave

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DaveK
Seems to me like like a Turbo R2 Fiesta is getting up there cost-wise and Matt has been upgrading the hell out of his BMW this year. I'd consider both of those cars to be spending a fortune compared to most in the 2wd classes, no?

And everyone knows you if you want to have a chance at rallying a 2WD successfully, you have to rent a Fiesta R2 from Team O'Neil.

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Grant Hughes

Dave..regional comparison. Other than Dericks BMW, which is more of a rule anomoly, no one has pushed the limits much. Nationally it is a bit of a different story.

IF there were to be restrictions such a gear box then all items need be considered so it could be done at once. Someone will still fuss. Another possibility might be limited slip diffs. None allowed or rear only. Lots of things to consider. When we used to circle track on asphalt one class had rules against welded or locked diffs. The top 3 cars always had to nose the wall under the flag stand and light the tires up. Better only have one tire spinning or a DQ was handed out. Crude but seemed to work. A lack of traction negates horse power pretty quickly on loose surfaces. Just stuff to think about.

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imnotcrazy
More people need to rally for the fun/enjoyment of it. Regardless of the competition. Sure competition makes you want to go faster but how many can really afford to concern themselves with being the champion? Just have a ball but don't ball it up trying to win it all.

While I agree that people should rally just for the fun of rallying, they should still try to win. If you're there to just josh around and drink some beer, then why not just do that at your state forest? They have gravel roads and most of the time people dont go down those roads out of fear of getting stuck.

People entering the rallys should at least try to win; now I'm not saying go balls to the walls till your motor blows, but at least give it a bit of a push. I race to win and just have my fun when its over and recap on it, I don't race anything just to have fun; I want to win and thats my driving factor. But thats just the way I am.

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McSlider

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imnotcrazy
More people need to rally for the fun/enjoyment of it. Regardless of the competition. Sure competition makes you want to go faster but how many can really afford to concern themselves with being the champion? Just have a ball but don't ball it up trying to win it all.

While I agree that people should rally just for the fun of rallying, they should still try to win. If you're there to just josh around and drink some beer, then why not just do that at your state forest? They have gravel roads and most of the time people dont go down those roads out of fear of getting stuck.

People entering the rallys should at least try to win; now I'm not saying go balls to the walls till your motor blows, but at least give it a bit of a push. I race to win and just have my fun when its over and recap on it, I don't race anything just to have fun; I want to win and thats my driving factor. But thats just the way I am.

Ya know why it says "Troubled teen" by your name? The name you are too paranoid that something will happen if anybody knows your name?

Because teens regardless of wht they can do, rarely have any broader or deeper insights.
race to win..
Bullshit
Race to do something well...
If you're out winning your local moto-cross does it mean shit? No it means nothing.. Go win some outdoor nationals. Go do some Internationals... win some of them and ya know what it means? Nothing. There's World Championship above Internationals..Win some of those and what does it mean? This is a conversation I had once:
"It doesn't mean shit, I drove like shit today"

(me to 2 time World Champion Bengt Åberg from Bollnäs): "Well shit, you won both heats, that's shit?"

2 times World Champion; "I drove like shit, all the placing means is I made less gross blunders than they did, or i cuaght some of my blunders sooner than they did.."

Me "Well OK, sorry I complimented you. Sheesh"...

Winning is about beating other people... If your competition is thin as it s in North America and winniong is your small time goal, you won't learn more than you need to.."

And you'll be wasting time.....

The real task is to drive well and to learn...the battle is between your head and the world (the gravel, the bumps, the turns, the tires-)--everything outside of your head.

Concern about winning is why there are 3 or 4 classes just for the Blue Subie crowd cause they all want a class so they can win something..

Sure like whassis name said, some people just motor down the road at somewhere around 45mph---which I don't understand why or how they do it... Clearly they are understanding something..
But this "I race to WIN!' is bullshit off of movies

Even if you do anything there be assholes around 10 15 years later to shit all over it and brag how they were badder.

Now stop being childish and put your name up like an adult if you want to talk with adults.
Nothing has happened to anybody here because they have their name up.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

John, you're right on the money with 95% of your post above. Fundamentally, I couldn't agree more.

My best results have always come in situations where I'm focusing on being the best I can be and not worrying about what the other guys are doing.

Conversely, the biggest problems have usually shown up when I've been pulled into a 'contest' or for some reason have been distracted by other people's performance.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2014 11:25PM by Morison.