Quote
Anders Green

Quote
heymagic
If the max speed rule is enforced then the organizers and the rest of the pack are the ones paying the price for the dollar war. We lose the roads that are fine for the rest of us. So by slowing the top guys down, by whatever method, we might save some stages.

I'll weigh in on this: I think it's ridiculous. You have some tiny number, between 1 and 3 racers at an event, who are, by the nature of their high budgets, causing problems for the entire rest of the field. And RA is doing nothing about it.

To clarify: by "causing trouble" I mean that Higgins and Block have machinery that is so fast they are causing stages to become 'illegal' in the eyes of RA, once those guys go past a magic number of X miles per hour. And all those chicanes that you, the racers are dodging? It's mostly for those guys. And all those chicanes that you, thankless volunteer, are lugging around and monitoring and reporting on? It's mostly for those guys.

Fast cars are cool. We all love fast cars. However, raise your hand if you would like to pull up to a stage and be told "Sorry, you have to transit this stage. Block just broke 80-something mph average." To be clear, this isn't what happens, the stage is cancelled for NEXT year.

Guess how many organizers in the country have other roads available to use that are twistier than the roads they are using now? ZERO.

This is not a mind bending problem. Sanctioning bodies have been slowing down cars for as long as cars have been racing. There's no mystery in how to slow down cars, it's EASY. Who here doesn't know how to make their car SLOWER?

The most obvious:

• Less horsepower (smaller restrictor)
• More weight
• Less traction (limited number/type of tires)

Pick some or all of the above, create a "pro" class, and slow down the cars. Yup, there's "Open", and "Open Pro". Only Open Pro gets on TV and in the press releases. You win in an Open car? Congrats, you just got bumped to Open Pro, here's your restrictor. You break the 80 something mph average? Congrats, you just got bumped to Open Pro, here's your restrictor.

Remember, we are racing other people. We are not trying to set a theoretical land-speed record. The total lowest time doesn't matter... only the time RELATIVE to the other racers. So if you reduce the potential of the top cars by 15%... they are all still RACING just as hard.

Slowing down cars that are going so fast they are causing problems for the event is one of the things that you expect your sanctioning body to take care of, in all forms of auto racing. Talledaga has drivers dying and cars flying into the crowd... does anyone expect the track to change it's configuration? No, the NASCAR mandates those pop-up panels on the roof and that keeps spun cars from getting airborne.

Anders

ps: for the curious, NRS has neither the speed limit rule nor the ridiculously fast cars racing to need the rule. If it comes to it, the above is a pretty clear guideline to what the solutions we implement will be.

Quote
Anders Green

Well, finally. Like I said, restrictors and tires. The exact amount of difference will be interesting to measure.

http://rally-america.com/RuleBulletin/Rule_Bulletin_2014_008.pdf

Oblig: New restrictor sizes and tire limits will save rally!

Anders

Quote
Anders Green

Quote
Anders Green

Quote
heymagic
If the max speed rule is enforced then the organizers and the rest of the pack are the ones paying the price for the dollar war. We lose the roads that are fine for the rest of us. So by slowing the top guys down, by whatever method, we might save some stages.

I'll weigh in on this: I think it's ridiculous. You have some tiny number, between 1 and 3 racers at an event, who are, by the nature of their high budgets, causing problems for the entire rest of the field. And RA is doing nothing about it.

To clarify: by "causing trouble" I mean that Higgins and Block have machinery that is so fast they are causing stages to become 'illegal' in the eyes of RA, once those guys go past a magic number of X miles per hour. And all those chicanes that you, the racers are dodging? It's mostly for those guys. And all those chicanes that you, thankless volunteer, are lugging around and monitoring and reporting on? It's mostly for those guys.

Fast cars are cool. We all love fast cars. However, raise your hand if you would like to pull up to a stage and be told "Sorry, you have to transit this stage. Block just broke 80-something mph average." To be clear, this isn't what happens, the stage is cancelled for NEXT year.

Guess how many organizers in the country have other roads available to use that are twistier than the roads they are using now? ZERO.

This is not a mind bending problem. Sanctioning bodies have been slowing down cars for as long as cars have been racing. There's no mystery in how to slow down cars, it's EASY. Who here doesn't know how to make their car SLOWER?

The most obvious:

• Less horsepower (smaller restrictor)
• More weight
• Less traction (limited number/type of tires)

Pick some or all of the above, create a "pro" class, and slow down the cars. Yup, there's "Open", and "Open Pro". Only Open Pro gets on TV and in the press releases. You win in an Open car? Congrats, you just got bumped to Open Pro, here's your restrictor. You break the 80 something mph average? Congrats, you just got bumped to Open Pro, here's your restrictor.

Remember, we are racing other people. We are not trying to set a theoretical land-speed record. The total lowest time doesn't matter... only the time RELATIVE to the other racers. So if you reduce the potential of the top cars by 15%... they are all still RACING just as hard.

Slowing down cars that are going so fast they are causing problems for the event is one of the things that you expect your sanctioning body to take care of, in all forms of auto racing. Talledaga has drivers dying and cars flying into the crowd... does anyone expect the track to change it's configuration? No, the NASCAR mandates those pop-up panels on the roof and that keeps spun cars from getting airborne.

Anders

ps: for the curious, NRS has neither the speed limit rule nor the ridiculously fast cars racing to need the rule. If it comes to it, the above is a pretty clear guideline to what the solutions we implement will be.

Well, finally. Like I said, restrictors and tires. The exact amount of difference will be interesting to measure.

http://rally-america.com/RuleBulletin/Rule_Bulletin_2014_008.pdf

Oblig: New restrictor sizes and tire limits will save rally!

Anders

Quote
Jard
I read 10.1.H as all cars must now run a dual master cylinder brake setup?

Quote
NoCoast

Quote
Jard
I read 10.1.H as all cars must now run a dual master cylinder brake setup?

No, just that you can't run all four on a single master circuit.
For example, Subaru is a dual circuit single master so stock is still fine.

• Multiple circuits may not draw fluid from a common, undivided reservoir.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
Anders Green

Quote
Anders Green

Quote
heymagic
If the max speed rule is enforced then the organizers and the rest of the pack are the ones paying the price for the dollar war. We lose the roads that are fine for the rest of us. So by slowing the top guys down, by whatever method, we might save some stages.

I'll weigh in on this: I think it's ridiculous. You have some tiny number, between 1 and 3 racers at an event, who are, by the nature of their high budgets, causing problems for the entire rest of the field. And RA is doing nothing about it.

To clarify: by "causing trouble" I mean that Higgins and Block have machinery that is so fast they are causing stages to become 'illegal' in the eyes of RA, once those guys go past a magic number of X miles per hour. And all those chicanes that you, the racers are dodging? It's mostly for those guys. And all those chicanes that you, thankless volunteer, are lugging around and monitoring and reporting on? It's mostly for those guys.

Fast cars are cool. We all love fast cars. However, raise your hand if you would like to pull up to a stage and be told "Sorry, you have to transit this stage. Block just broke 80-something mph average." To be clear, this isn't what happens, the stage is cancelled for NEXT year.

Guess how many organizers in the country have other roads available to use that are twistier than the roads they are using now? ZERO.

This is not a mind bending problem. Sanctioning bodies have been slowing down cars for as long as cars have been racing. There's no mystery in how to slow down cars, it's EASY. Who here doesn't know how to make their car SLOWER?

The most obvious:

• Less horsepower (smaller restrictor)
• More weight
• Less traction (limited number/type of tires)

Pick some or all of the above, create a "pro" class, and slow down the cars. Yup, there's "Open", and "Open Pro". Only Open Pro gets on TV and in the press releases. You win in an Open car? Congrats, you just got bumped to Open Pro, here's your restrictor. You break the 80 something mph average? Congrats, you just got bumped to Open Pro, here's your restrictor.

Remember, we are racing other people. We are not trying to set a theoretical land-speed record. The total lowest time doesn't matter... only the time RELATIVE to the other racers. So if you reduce the potential of the top cars by 15%... they are all still RACING just as hard.

Slowing down cars that are going so fast they are causing problems for the event is one of the things that you expect your sanctioning body to take care of, in all forms of auto racing. Talledaga has drivers dying and cars flying into the crowd... does anyone expect the track to change it's configuration? No, the NASCAR mandates those pop-up panels on the roof and that keeps spun cars from getting airborne.

Anders

ps: for the curious, NRS has neither the speed limit rule nor the ridiculously fast cars racing to need the rule. If it comes to it, the above is a pretty clear guideline to what the solutions we implement will be.

Well, finally. Like I said, restrictors and tires. The exact amount of difference will be interesting to measure.

http://rally-america.com/RuleBulletin/Rule_Bulletin_2014_008.pdf

Oblig: New restrictor sizes and tire limits will save rally!

Anders

33mm won't hurt a 1.6 as much as 34mm hurts a 2,0......as we have seen so clearly in the Dubya Arsey.

And 14 tires??

Should have made it 10 max in milage is 130

Less for shorter events.

Jerkin' the Gherkin will save rally!

Quote
NoCoast

Quote
Jard
I read 10.1.H as all cars must now run a dual master cylinder brake setup?

No, just that you can't run all four on a single master circuit.
For example, Subaru is a dual circuit single master so stock is still fine.

My favorite is this one:
Rationale: This change is being introduced to eliminate the risk that the tank storing
boost may become a bomb should the rally vehicle catch fire.

I wasn't aware that compressed atmospheric air could explode under heat.

Quote
imnotcrazy

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
Anders Green

Quote
Anders Green

Quote
heymagic
If the max speed rule is enforced then the organizers and the rest of the pack are the ones paying the price for the dollar war. We lose the roads that are fine for the rest of us. So by slowing the top guys down, by whatever method, we might save some stages.

I'll weigh in on this: I think it's ridiculous. You have some tiny number, between 1 and 3 racers at an event, who are, by the nature of their high budgets, causing problems for the entire rest of the field. And RA is doing nothing about it.

To clarify: by "causing trouble" I mean that Higgins and Block have machinery that is so fast they are causing stages to become 'illegal' in the eyes of RA, once those guys go past a magic number of X miles per hour. And all those chicanes that you, the racers are dodging? It's mostly for those guys. And all those chicanes that you, thankless volunteer, are lugging around and monitoring and reporting on? It's mostly for those guys.

Fast cars are cool. We all love fast cars. However, raise your hand if you would like to pull up to a stage and be told "Sorry, you have to transit this stage. Block just broke 80-something mph average." To be clear, this isn't what happens, the stage is cancelled for NEXT year.

Guess how many organizers in the country have other roads available to use that are twistier than the roads they are using now? ZERO.

This is not a mind bending problem. Sanctioning bodies have been slowing down cars for as long as cars have been racing. There's no mystery in how to slow down cars, it's EASY. Who here doesn't know how to make their car SLOWER?

The most obvious:

• Less horsepower (smaller restrictor)
• More weight
• Less traction (limited number/type of tires)

Pick some or all of the above, create a "pro" class, and slow down the cars. Yup, there's "Open", and "Open Pro". Only Open Pro gets on TV and in the press releases. You win in an Open car? Congrats, you just got bumped to Open Pro, here's your restrictor. You break the 80 something mph average? Congrats, you just got bumped to Open Pro, here's your restrictor.

Remember, we are racing other people. We are not trying to set a theoretical land-speed record. The total lowest time doesn't matter... only the time RELATIVE to the other racers. So if you reduce the potential of the top cars by 15%... they are all still RACING just as hard.

Slowing down cars that are going so fast they are causing problems for the event is one of the things that you expect your sanctioning body to take care of, in all forms of auto racing. Talledaga has drivers dying and cars flying into the crowd... does anyone expect the track to change it's configuration? No, the NASCAR mandates those pop-up panels on the roof and that keeps spun cars from getting airborne.

Anders

ps: for the curious, NRS has neither the speed limit rule nor the ridiculously fast cars racing to need the rule. If it comes to it, the above is a pretty clear guideline to what the solutions we implement will be.

Well, finally. Like I said, restrictors and tires. The exact amount of difference will be interesting to measure.

http://rally-america.com/RuleBulletin/Rule_Bulletin_2014_008.pdf

Oblig: New restrictor sizes and tire limits will save rally!

Anders

33mm won't hurt a 1.6 as much as 34mm hurts a 2,0......as we have seen so clearly in the Dubya Arsey.

And 14 tires??

Should have made it 10 max in milage is 130

Less for shorter events.

Jerkin' the Gherkin will save rally!

As a person who does this for my hobby, please don't change the restrictor. I've been running the same tune for 10 years and have no reason to change it, I have enough power to get myself in trouble now as is. I don't need that expense. Limit tires, add weight, mandate pump gas (which I'm running) first.

Quote
DaveK

Quote
NoCoast

Quote
Jard
I read 10.1.H as all cars must now run a dual master cylinder brake setup?

No, just that you can't run all four on a single master circuit.
For example, Subaru is a dual circuit single master so stock is still fine.

• Multiple circuits may not draw fluid from a common, undivided reservoir.

Doesn't this part of the rule specify otherwise?

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote

mandate pump gas

This... But that would hurt
"The Big Boys" who can afford it...

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
NoCoast
My favorite is this one:
Rationale: This change is being introduced to eliminate the risk that the tank storing
boost may become a bomb should the rally vehicle catch fire.
I wasn't aware that compressed atmospheric air could explode under heat.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.