Well i have a friend that has 8 of them he is willing to sell and has a spare rear
end and i saw people are looking at fixing there week trailing arm set up. So if i
built a set up and reinforced the rear knuckle and new drag link would people buy it?
I have plenty of simple fix ideas for it and would sell the kit latter on my web
site. So any feedback it wouldn't take me but a week to have it done truthfully i
need the cash and i would dance on my head if thats what it took. I just happen to
land on a whole rear end and all and would like to set it up. Also is a 4 door rear
end the same as the 2 door its out of a 4 door if need be i can get the 2 door ones
but this ones already out of the car? thanks alot

---

TSSFAB.US No HYPE just parts!!!! And check us out on Facebook!!!

I'd be interested in reinforced rear arms for a Mazda3. (Same basic design, but stronger rear shock mount, so you need to start with a Mazda3 arm.) I was just starting to build a jig to do it myself, but thingsthataren'trally have suddenly been taking up too much of my time. How, precisely, are you planning to do the reinforcements?

-Dave

What do you mean is there a trick i dont know in those knuckles i will draw all the
tabs on my computer and cut them out and build a threaded link for a hime and two
bushings and on bush will be threaded just in case the adjustment is needed

---

TSSFAB.US No HYPE just parts!!!! And check us out on Facebook!!!

Dude, punctuation!

I can't parse out the meaning of your wordstream.

What are you asking?

-Dave

eyesoreracing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd be interested in reinforced rear arms for a
> Mazda3. (Same basic design, but stronger rear
> shock mount, so you need to start with a Mazda3
> arm.) I was just starting to build a jig to do it
> myself, but thingsthataren'trally have suddenly
> been taking up too much of my time. How,
> precisely, are you planning to do the
> reinforcements?
>
> -Dave
Probably by making the pieces which were so elegantly and generously posted up here previously, the ones where you sorta groaned audiably when it was shown it was just transferring an idea from an existing Ford design.
Remember?
That was the last time you posted.

I guess it was too simple.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2008 12:08AM by john vanlandingham.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Probably by making the pieces which were so
> elegantly and generously posted up here
> previously, the ones where you sorta groaned
> audiably when it was shown it was just
> transferring an idea from an existing Ford
> design.
> Remember?
> That was the last time you posted.
>
> I guess it was too simple.
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Apr 24, 2008 by john
> vanlandingham.

Not sure where you got the groan from, but your idea was simple, effective, and has been discussed at enough length both here and on my Mazda3 thread on that other rally forum that we're all supposed to hate that I already assumed that's what we were talking about.

My question was regarding the details. Heim joints, bushings or both? what kind of design for the forward pivot point? Are you planning to mount the torque arm/A-frame thingy inboard, outboard, or somehow in line with the original trailing arm?

-Dave

eyesoreracing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Not sure where you got the groan from,

Well there you have an idea of the "tone" thing that seems a good majority of people READING seem to understand but a percentage misunderstand with me and think I'm being "grouchy" or whatever the fuck.
From the way that long threadjack was going (and it WAS a huge threadjack but we aren't hard-nose about anything much here) it was funny, at least to me and at least 3-4 others who were reading, funny in that I would say something and you would respond back seemingly direct to Tim Taylor, who might come up with a sketch because his are prettier, then I would say No a bit more like this for ease of construction, and then you would respond seemingly directly back to Tim, who would then do a revised drawing, then I would say Er more like this which has already been done, and when I put the copy from Ford's book up you made a comment like
Oh geeeze, does it always have to come back to Ford?"
And then disappeared.

A surprising number of people, surprising because the whole threadjack is just a simple detail on some OTHER dumb car than the dumb car they were fucking with, either wrote or called and were all laughing saying "What the fuck is it with that guy?"
And quite honestly I thought the same, what the fuck, yeah. But I said to these guys asking what's up with you Dave and what they read as a snubbing and dismissive, and hence quite arrogant TONE, "Who knows, that's writing and I sure as hell have been accused by enough guys of having an "Insulting" tone, when really there's nothing there, just poor reading".


but your
> idea was simple, effective, and has been discussed
> at enough length both here and on my Mazda3 thread
> on that other rally forum that we're all supposed
> to hate that I already assumed that's what we were
> talking about.

See? There you go again. Nobody has said anybody is "Supposed to hate SS.com"

There HAS been some extremely heavy handed and selective "Moderating" in the past, and their attempts to present a ROSY picture of North American Rallying leads them tyo naturally want to supress anything that in their reading is at all "Negative".

The problem is that it seems that the various "principles" at SS.com are all "computer dudes" and Computer doooods have a major problem: their reading skills are usually shit, and they make shitloads of money and that makes them think they are really smart in every field----and that makes them make stupid mistakes.
(and right there is a good example: I just said "They make stupid mistakes", the average dim reader would TAKE that as "You just insulting 'them' --you should be banned!!" When what I said, 'dumb mistakes' has nothing at all to do with the goodness or badness of the person. Dumb modifies the word 'mistake' which has no inherent 'value' in itself.)

If you look at the thread immediately after which I was "Lifetime banned" you can see Eli Gilbert (who later called and apologized) insulting me and telling me to shut up, and Rally America's Cjheif scrutineer/tech honcho Hurst totally out of context, totally threadjacking soley to insult me and ridicule, hand LIE LIKE HURST ALWAYS DOES with half truths and picking things out of context, and not a word is said.
That presumably is alright, but broad sarcasm back isn't.

If we look at one of the various "Bring Back JVL" threads, George Plesek, who is apparently the registered OWNER of the domain name said in a brilliant display of the level of his intellectual capacity "Well, he hasn't called or contacted me, so I guess he's not too worried."
Brilliant in that my ISP is blocked (by who?) so nothing opens and I can't send him a PM or email, and of course I don't have his phone number (why would I? I don't need to talk about computers or surfing).

But he lashed out revealingly in another response in one of those thread (which I officially am blocked from seeing) and said "He insults people. He called me a Communist right here on SS.COM about 3-4 years ago."

Now I really don't know if you're still reading, but I'm trying to illustrate how tone, including YOUR tone, is so easily mistaken, and how people can feel slighted or even snubbed or even highly outraged as Plesek evidently did, so bear with me.

YEARS ago when there was still an SCCA Pro Rallyâ„¢ Board, I advocated very strongly that there shouldf be efforts to have some sort of qualifications for it other than you had a buddy nominate you---which WAS the case.
I also strongly advocated that there NEEDED to be some form of RECALL of SCCA Pro Rally Board members and there needed to be oversight and recall over the other PAID BY MEMBERSHIP FEES positions, especially when they were shown to be utterly worthless and vindictive as for example Doug Robinson.

Now there was much debate and many were vehemently opposed to any even rudimentary
form of memebership input into the process of either how their "Representatives" should be "chosen" or how the rules which govern them should be created and formed.

I was mildly surprised at the heat of those nay saying some simple participatory democratic process and said something to the effect of "You'd expect some like Plesek who grew up in a Communist regime to be especially sensitive to the ideas of a democratic process..."
(Since I am banned I can't search their archives for a quote)

But there you see the source of surfer-boy's animosity.
Yeah right "I called him a Communist".
(what's particularly funny is, as one friiend who knows me and my politics and where I grew up, he said "But dood, if you did, that could only be a compliment from you!"

To Plesek, who totally misread, all he knows is "I insulted him".
Fucking brilliant.

Do you see how TONE is so easily misconstrued?

I can only repeat, 4-5 others read your "does it always have to come back to Ford?" as a lament, and your dropping the thread as a "huff" or something.



>
> My question was regarding the details. Heim
> joints, bushings or both? what kind of design for
> the forward pivot point? Are you planning to mount
> the torque arm/A-frame thingy inboard, outboard,
> or somehow in line with the original trailing arm?

We'll see.
I want to do one for "Quattro Ben" from Utah who baking in Iraq right now.
Probably be one large 3/4 rod end with my stainless spacers up front, two spherical bearings 15mm spaced down to 12mm with more of my Soooper Bitchin spacers in the back, and final utformning determined by clearance to tires or bodyshell.
Problem is, as always, no body shell to chop on right hewre in my hands, so we have to do sheeet long distance making a simple easy thing like this link into an epic adventure.
>
>
> -Dave
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

> From the way that long threadjack was going (and
> it WAS a huge threadjack but we aren't hard-nose
> about anything much here) it was funny, at least
> to me and at least 3-4 others who were reading,
> funny in that I would say something and you would
> respond back seemingly direct to Tim Taylor, who
> might come up with a sketch because his are
> prettier

I do recall being kinda confused about who was coming up with what in that thread.

> Oh geeeze, does it always have to come back to
> Ford?"
> And then disappeared.

Nobody else posted anything either. I wasn't the only one who disappeared. I figured we were pretty well done hijacking that thread and maybe we should let it get back on topic.

We were simultaneously discussing exactly the same thing on the SS Mazda3 thread at the time, and since I'm trying to put all the Mazda3 content in one place for future generations to educate themselves with, I went and posted what we had come up with.

You had been posting on that thread not that long ago, so I assumed you could and would see it there. Here's a peek at the post, since you seem to be so thoroughly banned that you can't even see it (I didn't even realize that was possible).

I have your crayon drawings on there as well, which show how to attach to the new arm to the Mazda arm.

We've since gone on and refined the design a bit further, but there are still a couple open questions on it.

Come to think of it, Lurch used to be on that thread a lot too, and he suddenly disappeared. Did he get banned too, or does he think I'm an asshole now for some reason?


> A surprising number of people, surprising because
> the whole threadjack is just a simple detail on
> some OTHER dumb car than the dumb car they were
> fucking with, either wrote or called and were all
> laughing saying "What the fuck is it with that
> guy?"
> And quite honestly I thought the same, what the
> fuck, yeah. But I said to these guys asking what's
> up with you Dave and what they read as a snubbing
> and dismissive, and hence quite arrogant TONE,
> "Who knows, that's writing and I sure as hell have
> been accused by enough guys of having an
> "Insulting" tone, when really there's nothing
> there, just poor reading".

Tell you what. I should have a business trip to Tacoma the first week in May. Lets get together for a beer and talk about rally cars. We can also take a picture of the momentous event and post it here so everyone knows we're real people who know how to get along with other real people.

I'll also bring some pictures along of some similar suspensions that should help us resolve all the last details on this arm. I stuck my camera under this particular race car with the understanding that I wouldn't post the photos anywhere, so unfortunately, I can't share with the whole class.

> I can only repeat, 4-5 others read your "does it
> always have to come back to Ford?" as a lament,
> and your dropping the thread as a "huff" or
> something.

I'm not really a very huffy person.


> We'll see.
> I want to do one for "Quattro Ben" from Utah who
> baking in Iraq right now.
> Probably be one large 3/4 rod end with my
> stainless spacers up front, two spherical bearings
> 15mm spaced down to 12mm with more of my Soooper
> Bitchin spacers in the back, and final utformning
> determined by clearance to tires or bodyshell.
> Problem is, as always, no body shell to chop on
> right hewre in my hands, so we have to do sheeet
> long distance making a simple easy thing like this
> link into an epic adventure.

What's a Sooper Bitchin spacer?

Regarding the arm's attachement point on the trailing arm, my gut feeling is that the safest plan is to put it directly in line with original arm. Moving it inboard, slightly is tempting for tire clearance and to simplify the mounting bracket for the rear rod ends. This would cause some small tendency to toe out when the wheel is pulled rearward (every time it hits a bump). This might be too small an effect to matter, or it might not, I really don't have any idea on that.

Keeping it in the original line might be really easy, but I'm having a really hard time figuring out how to describe it. I need your crayon sketching skillz.

-Dave

Hey John,

Are you anywhere near the 9-lb. Hammer on Airport way? I'll be kicking back there a couple evenings next week with some old Seattle buddies. I'd love to meet in person and get past all this stupid net.bickering.

-Dave

eyesoreracing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey John,
>
> Are you anywhere near the 9-lb. Hammer on Airport
> way? I'll be kicking back there a couple evenings
> next week with some old Seattle buddies. I'd love
> to meet in person and get past all this stupid
> net.bickering.
>
> -Dave

I go by there 3-5 times a week, I'm just at the other end of Airport way, not 1.5s from the South End of Boeing field or 2 miles from the North end of the runways for Sea-Tac.

You have a rental car arranged?

What time you flying in?

And Dave, I don't think anybody is actually bickering, only thing I was saying is its amazingly easy for people to "Hear" a wrong tone, as I know so well.
The other thing is often we are unclear about what people are trying to accomplish, usually it's unstated and we done know if somebody is trying to "be brilliant" and show off how they can make zoot-capri solutions to simple problems or just get something done to a level I call "pretty damn good".

Anyway, lets talk.

Maybe I can invite some of the local boys over or we can have a sorta mini CCCP meeting, CCCP being our extremely informal Crazy Car Crashing People group (which is where this forum grew out of).

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I had a feeling you were near there...

A CCCP meeting sounds great! Tell you what, I'll be available any night, sunday through wednesday. I'm working at Port Tacoma for the week, and should be done by 5 each day. Sunday's timing, naturally, is more flexible. Just tell me what time and day works best for the rest of the group and I'll be there.

I'm flying in saturday evening, but I need to go visit my family (Lake City) first before I start playing with rally cars. Gotta pay your dues...
On the rental car thing, I think I have something arranged, unless you rent Xrattys...

-Dave

I've been meaning to get down to 9 LB Hammer for a while.

I also want to get a Bacontini from Smarty Pants which is in that Georgetown area.

9 Lb hammer, 7:30 tonight (5/6). Anyone in the hood is invited. Sorry for the late notice, I thought JVL was posting this last night.

-Dave

eyesoreracing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 9 Lb hammer, 7:30 tonight (5/6). Anyone in the
> hood is invited. Sorry for the late notice, I
> thought JVL was posting this last night.
>
> -Dave

I did as I said:http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,14836
TUESDAY, Drink Beer, show PNW Hospitality, Mini CCCP
Posted by: john vanlandingham (71.212.77.---)
Date: May 5, 2008

And say hi to visting rally perv and Gp2 fan Dave Coleman.

7pm so you can grab some dinner before then swill some frosty flaggons of Ale.

Nine Pound Hammer on Airport way.

We have lots to talk about Post Olympus: Speeds on the roads, how to get onto the roads South of Pomeroy where there's a driving challenge, TomBs major problems,
Idaho, Oregon.
who's doing what.
Be there or be square.
Somebody who isn't banned or isn't boycotting the aptly named SS.com might want to copy and paste this there in the PNW forum.

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.jvab.f4.ca


Went further and suggested some un-banninated person post it at SS.com PNW forum.
Did anybody do that?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

BACK ON TOPIC! WOW!

So JVL and I talked through the Mazda3/Focus trailing arm reinforcement using pictures, words, and banging rusty pieces of metal together. We've got a pretty good plan of attack, which I think will be easier to show than to describe (partially because I promised not to circulate the pictures I have of the car I'm stealing ideas from).

So, step 1, I built a jig that I can assemble the soon-to-be 2-piece arm on.



Step 2 will be when JVL gives me the link to the bushings he found that I plan to use at the rear of the A-frame thing that still kinda looks like this:



Bushings instead of bearings at the rear gives some cushion. Keeping the spherical bearing at the front makes it easier to keep the forward pivot point in the original location, or possibly even higher. Mounting it higher changes the wheel's motion over bumps a little, letting it move back as the suspension moves up. It also introduces a bit of anti-dive, which probably isn't a bad thing.

I only plan to make one set of these arms, so, if we go back to the original point of this thread, hopefully some lessons can be applied to any production parts William may make.

-Dave