Curious: Buy vs Build a cage for the Gaylant?

I've been quoted about $2500 from two different sources for a proper (legal) cage for the car. This is the biggest of the big ticket items I can think of for the car. Not only is it the most involved prep project, but it's also the biggest difference between poseur "rally marketing vehicle" and "real rally car."

Assuming I can get help from a seasoned, local rallyista who already has the bender, MIG and shop, what kind of difference in cost would this be? How many feet of material would I need?

Trying to put things in perspective. Thanks!

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

$2500? that's cheap.....who and where? LOL

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Seriously? They both told me this was the buddy hook up price, but damn.

I'm still pressing on, but it's hard to stay motivated when I think of things like spending $1500 for a couple HANS devices when I might be able to afford ONE event per year. Guess I could rent them, but still.

Even so, easier to come up with money for an event when you've got a car prepped. Easy to come up with money for another event when you've just completed an event...

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

You're probably looking at 80-100' or so of tubing in a hand-built cage. Plus a bunch of 1/8" and 1mm stock for feet, gussets and brackets.

Last time I looked into tube pricing 1.75" x 0.95" DOM was going for $4.00 a foot or so but I think it's spiked up since then.

So, assuming a bit of a price increase in tube, $1000 bucks or so in materials (depending on the price of beer in AZ) and you could probably swing it with some rally buds.

Try to dig up Larry Parker's gallery of pictures -- the cage he built for his Galant is really well done.

Cheers, Ted

---

Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec

Thanks, Ted. Did some shopping around online and it looks like it's going for just under $8/ft in Phoenix. Maybe I could talk my way into a better price in person, but who knows. Your estimate is pretty dead on. Appreciate knowing that it might be possible for less than $2000.

I'm going to start studying other Galant cages I can find. Larry Parker, Evan Cline, and maybe even drop in on Moose some evening. It would be good to see where things are tied together and all that.

Does the cage have to be built all-at-once? Is it possible (or even wise) to build it into the car in segments? At the same time, would it be wise to pick up the tubing 20ft at a time in order to spread the cost around. I know that such a plan would risk RA coming out and saying all new cages must be made by 1.75x0.100 and I'd have some bitchin' fence posts, but you know what I mean.

Thanks for the input!

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

Remember the fourth law of thermodynamics; Time = Money. Plus, if you pay someone to do it, you can gripe and blame them for the funny looking bits.

DR1665 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Does the cage have to be built all-at-once? Is it
> possible (or even wise) to build it into the car
> in segments?


I'd check with your scrutineer, in Canada they want to see a dated receipt from your metal supplier with the tube specs on it, don't know if multiple receipts and dates would be an issue.

Cheers, Ted

---

Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec

Looking online it seems about $5 a foot currently. You get a discount with more footage so best to buy at once. Figure about $700-800 or so in materials for cage and stuff. Best to do it all at once and get it log booked just in case there are some major rule changes.

Call Roger Hull and get John Winn's number up the hill here ...And what were you thinking this sport cost to play..???..And your going AWD ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2009 10:48PM by Haztoys.

Haztoys Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>.And what were you thinking this sport
> cost to play..???..And your going AWD ...

Realistically a decently put together Gaylant shouldn't be any more expensive to run than a Golf. The trannies hold up pretty well and the awd system is just a xfer case, a driveshaft and rear diff, all of which are pretty much bulletproof and cheap to fix, ie disposable VW rear beam vs some decent oil and maybe a 4-bolt rear (with an LSD) diff for $300.00, There are no trick diffs available to tempt you to spend thousands on, the trannies can be rebuilt for $1000 or so and the only recurring issue they have is 2nd gear synchros (which is easily fixable), Front control arms are about $60 new with balljoints from Dorman, and are already plated from the factory. The "hot" turbo is about $450 or so new -- not much point getting a fancypants one with the restrictor.

You might go through more tires, but the Galant takes 15 inchers so used takeoffs are plentiful.

Entry fees, suspension, towing, safety equipment and hotel rooms are the biggest expenses IMHO (and most of those expenses are the same for everyone) -- the cars are cheap unless you get crazy buying fancy toys.

Cheers, Ted

---

Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec

Haztoys Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Call Roger Hull and get John Winn's number up the
> hill here ...And what were you thinking this sport
> cost to play..???..And your going AWD ...

Roger has a connection on tubing or something? Good to know.

It's not so much that I feel the cost is abnormally high at all. Just a bit humbling to look back and see that I put $6000+ into my daily driven Talon between 2003 and 2007, only to sell the engine for $1500 (for which I'm still owed about $1000) and then sell the Talon for $1500 (which I used to buy my second Galant from Roger so I'd have something nice to drive to work every day).

[195] was a decent deal and I got it running alright, but then I had to source a new engine for it, then that engine blew and I had to drop a grand into another engine, and then, just when I was paid and ready for Ridgecrest rally school, some jerkass made a left in front of me and I ended up having to spend another grand on repairs. I've made next to zero progress in the three years since I picked up my car (prep-wise).

This thread has been really helpful, though. Just like rebuilding an engine, if you look at that complex air pump in the engine bay with all the wires and hoses everywhere, it's a big hassle, but you take it a step at a time and it's much easier than you think. When it comes to my build steps, I want to be sure I've got a good bead on the steps.

If it's any consolation, despite not having driven [195] in almost a year, now, I'm kinda excited about stripping it down to a rolling shell...

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

Dont worry about the HANS. There are enough people not rallying because of costs that you can easily borrow them or at very worst, rent one from Safe Drives. Just install the posts on the newest helmet you can find (or buy a helmet with them on there), and you'll be good for the next two years. Same goes for driving suits. Pay for shipping and drycleaning and you can use mine (Jack Zsanto did this for Plan B last year with my suit). Also, wait until the very last minute for seats and harnesses as you want them to last for as long as possible - since their life is finite.

Talk to Bret Norgaard at Bilstein about Galant parts - he has 3-4 Gaylants in some state of construction and I'm not sure if he's still going forward with his plans to build.....he already has a stripped, chopped (shortened rear overhangs) and seamwelded shell sitting in his garage. Maybe he'll let it go cheap? He also has some very trick bits like Ralliart diffs and close ratio transmission (IIRC).

The economy is a muther right now. Use it to your advantage to bargain. I doubt any cagebuilders are turning away business right now - make them a cheap offer, if they refuse, wait a month or two until they're more broke and then they'll do it. Sad to say, but there is a silver lining for some people during this economy, and it's those with cash.

I saw an ad on vwvortex for a large hans device. Asking price was 450 which also including the sliding tethers. if anyone is interested i ll post the link

---

rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

gilbrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Talk to Bret Norgaard at Bilstein about Galant
> parts - he has 3-4 Gaylants in some state of
> construction and I'm not sure if he's still going
> forward with his plans to build

I believe I've been driving one of those to and from work for going on three months, now. Kensington Grey? Front end collision at some point? Bought it from Roger Hull up in Prescott.

I've still got a lot to do, but this thread has been very informative and will help a lot with budgeting/planning purposes for sure. Thanks!

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

gilbrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> The economy is a muther right now. Use it to your
> advantage to bargain. I doubt any cagebuilders
> are turning away business right now - make them a
> cheap offer, if they refuse, wait a month or two
> until they're more broke and then they'll do it.
> Sad to say, but there is a silver lining for some
> people during this economy, and it's those with
> cash.

Fuck you. The materials still cost X amount and my time is still worth X amount. I've never been the most expensive guy around and I've always been willing to work with people and I like to think my reputation speaks for itself. But I'm not going to slash my prices right now because the economy is bad. My landlord hasn't lowered the rent because the economy is bad. If I wait a month or two for him to accept my lower rent offer he's not going to accept it, he's going to evict me. Besides, at the moment, knock on wood, I'm plenty busy. Who knows what the future holds.
Call me in a month or two and maybe we can make a deal.