Construction Zone
Don\
Welcome! Log In Register

Advanced

what do you think of carbs for rally cars?

Posted by mellow65 
mellow65
Oliver Klozoff
Infallible Moderator
Location: Oregon
Join Date: 09/10/2008
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 480

Rally Car:
Nada


what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 26, 2009 07:43PM
webbers, holly, edelbrock, i know there has to be some guys out there running them.

but how do they do? do they hold up to the hard life of rally? how about large altitude changes? are you rejeting based on what rally your running, or just running a good over all tune and leaving it.

sure in a perfect world you could always run some sort of FI but lets say you can't or at least don't want to deal with the FI wiring.

any input would be welcome. i'm just thinking out loud right now.



"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"
Please Login or Register to post a reply
krisdahl
Kris Dahl
Junior Moderator
Location: Issaquah, WA
Join Date: 02/13/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 282

Rally Car:
Integra, Civic


Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 26, 2009 08:40PM
We had pretty good luck with the Weber DGAV on the 510. Never really had a problem with it. Although I'm not sure if I could tell if it was 5-10hp down on elevation changes or not. Never had a problem starting anyway.

I personally would go with a megasquirt and call it a day though. Pretty simple installations.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Tom B
Tom B
Infallible Moderator
Location: Douche Canoe, WA
Join Date: 02/27/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 780

Rally Car:
VW Golf



Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 26, 2009 09:03PM
Bottles ran some DCOE's with alot of success



-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT

Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA
Please Login or Register to post a reply
david amor
david amor
Mega Moderator
Location: Stoney Creek Ontario
Join Date: 03/22/2006
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 458


Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 26, 2009 10:26PM
I think everyone a generation older than us will have a good laugh at this thread. I don't even know how a carb works smiling smiley



Gone fishing
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Jon Burke
Jon Burke
Ultra Moderator
Location: San Francisco, CA
Join Date: 01/03/2008
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 1,402

Rally Car:
Subaru w/<1000 crashes


Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 26, 2009 10:43PM
david amor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think everyone a generation older than us will
> have a good laugh at this thread. I don't even
> know how a carb works
>
> "To do a dull thing with style-now that's what I
> call art."
>
>
> -Hank

ditto, when I first read the title I was like.....breads and pastas for rally cars?






Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/
Please Login or Register to post a reply
mellow65
Oliver Klozoff
Infallible Moderator
Location: Oregon
Join Date: 09/10/2008
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 480

Rally Car:
Nada


Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 26, 2009 10:45PM
i just can't tune a carb to save my life. but sometimes FI wiring or tuning is more of a headache. i know how they work at least, but getting them dialed in is a dieing art form.



"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"
Please Login or Register to post a reply
derek
Derek Bottles
Super Moderator
Location: Lopez Island/ Seattle WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 853

Rally Car:
Past: 323, RX2, GTI. Next up M3 ?



Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 26, 2009 11:44PM
I liked my carbs, I often load up some in car video so I can listen to the sweet music of the twin Mukuni 44's wide open at 8500 RPM...

Other then the car being a cold blooded bitch when starting on a cold day I loved them. Starting was not helped by the 312 deg of cam duration either. Air was going both ways in the intake till you got the rpms up. I am sure if I hooked up the chokes that would have helped.

Ran them up fairly high a few times and never noticed any change, I would likely jet them for stuff over 4 or 5,000 feet if was going to be up there for a full event but from 0 to 4,000 feet they appeared happy.

Overall the carbs were rock solid, never gave me any problems. I also have a big ass Holly on my power boat, a tiny little something on an outboard or two and a genset and a fairly small little one on my wife's motorcycle, they are all fairly simple and reliable.

I have never messed with current fuel infected stuff but a lot of people I know spend a lot of time wondering what some little bit of silicon is doing to keep the car from running right and do not have the test equipment to get to the bottom of the problem.

When you pick a system spend the time to really understand it, read about it, learn it, know it.



In the long run reality always wins.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
mack73
Jason Wine
Elite Moderator
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: 02/20/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 448

Rally Car:
Started a Golf... Never Finished It


Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 26, 2009 11:57PM
I'm going with DCOE's for simplicity and a cheaper way to get some better throttle response.

Plus they just sound and look awesome





-Jason
Please Login or Register to post a reply
turoc
Ozgur Simsek
Junior Moderator
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Join Date: 06/07/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 561

Rally Car:
working on a Veedub


Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 27, 2009 12:15AM
mack73 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm going with DCOE's for simplicity and a cheaper
> way to get some better throttle response.
>
> Plus they just sound and look awesome
>
>
>
> 94 Golf
> www.Mack73.com


What will you run for ignition?



rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Doivi Clarkinen
Banned
Junior Moderator
Location: the end of the universe
Join Date: 02/12/2006
Age: Ancient
Posts: 1,432

Rally Car:
1980 Opel Ascona B



Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 27, 2009 07:22AM
OMG, children! Do carburetors hold up to rally? Are they hard to tune? How do they work? What do they look like, I've never seen one before?
Seems to me they worked pretty good as they only really started to get replaced by F.I. at the top level (ie: WRC) by the early '80's. Yes, I realize that is before most of you were born.
Just think of a carburetor as analog fuel injection, kind of. lol
There is a little bit of a black art in jetting the things but with a simple A/F ratio meter, checking the color of the spark plugs, and some knowledge (read up) they ard pretty simple to tune.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
david amor
david amor
Mega Moderator
Location: Stoney Creek Ontario
Join Date: 03/22/2006
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 458


Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 27, 2009 09:42AM
Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OMG, children! Do carburetors hold up to rally?
> Are they hard to tune? How do they work? What do
> they look like, I've never seen one before?
> Seems to me they worked pretty good as they only
> really started to get replaced by F.I. at the top
> level (ie: WRC) by the early '80's. Yes, I
> realize that is before most of you were born.
> Just think of a carburetor as analog fuel
> injection, kind of. lol
> There is a little bit of a black art in jetting
> the things but with a simple A/F ratio meter,
> checking the color of the spark plugs, and some
> knowledge (read up) they ard pretty simple to
> tune.


I tried running carbs but I couldn't find the USB port for my laptop!!!




Gone fishing
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Ted Andkilde
Ted Andkilde
Professional Moderator
Location: Windsor, ON, Canada
Join Date: 04/30/2006
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 329

Rally Car:
1968 Mini


Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 27, 2009 09:44AM
Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OMG, children! Do carburetors hold up to rally?
> Are they hard to tune? How do they work? What do
> they look like, I've never seen one before?
> Seems to me they worked pretty good as they only
> really started to get replaced by F.I. at the top
> level (ie: WRC) by the early '80's. Yes, I
> realize that is before most of you were born.
> Just think of a carburetor as analog fuel
> injection, kind of. lol
> There is a little bit of a black art in jetting
> the things but with a simple A/F ratio meter,
> checking the color of the spark plugs, and some
> knowledge (read up) they ard pretty simple to
> tune.


Yeah, I would think that a wideband and a logging program on a palm or a laptop would go a long way towards removing the "black art" from carb tuning, and might give the kiddies some warm fuzzies as they're not abandoning all their shiny new technology smiling smiley

There are lots of good books on tuning your chosen carb -- get a good one, or two and become intimate with why and how the circuits work and interact with each other.

Dave's line, "analog fuel injection" is right on the money -- all you're doing is turning the fuel into an aerosol and mixing it with, hopefully, the right amount of air, no rocket surgery smiling smiley

t







Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec
Please Login or Register to post a reply
mack73
Jason Wine
Elite Moderator
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: 02/20/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 448

Rally Car:
Started a Golf... Never Finished It


Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 27, 2009 11:05AM
turoc Wrote:
>
> What will you run for ignition?


Electromotive XDI http://www.electromotive-inc.com/products/xdi.html

crank trigger wasted spark.


Oh and a wideband for easier tuning.



-Jason
Please Login or Register to post a reply
sagsert
Mustafa Samli
Senior Moderator
Location: Arizona
Join Date: 01/10/2006
Age: Ancient
Posts: 824

Rally Car:
Gaylant VR4



Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 27, 2009 11:06AM
Keep the fucking electronics out of carburetors for fuck sakes !!!

We were all born with basic carburetor tuning tools, brain, nose, eyes and ears !

I love my twin DGVs because I am a cheap bastard and don't wanna buy tripple DCOEs or IDFs.....just yet.







Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors
Please Login or Register to post a reply
mellow65
Oliver Klozoff
Infallible Moderator
Location: Oregon
Join Date: 09/10/2008
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 480

Rally Car:
Nada


Re: what do you think of carbs for rally cars?
January 27, 2009 12:08PM
Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OMG, children! Do carburetors hold up to rally?
> Are they hard to tune? How do they work? What do
> they look like, I've never seen one before?
> Seems to me they worked pretty good as they only
> really started to get replaced by F.I. at the top
> level (ie: WRC) by the early '80's. Yes, I
> realize that is before most of you were born.
> Just think of a carburetor as analog fuel
> injection, kind of. lol
> There is a little bit of a black art in jetting
> the things but with a simple A/F ratio meter,
> checking the color of the spark plugs, and some
> knowledge (read up) they ard pretty simple to
> tune.

i know they had them before FI but were they having to fuck with them after each rally or were they solid pieces of equipment. you have some fragile things in carbs, float bowls other small little springs and other doodads.

i guess my question was more how well do they take the abuse of rally.




"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login