what do you think of carbs for rally cars?

mellow65 Wrote:

> i know they had them before FI but were they
> having to fuck with them after each rally or were
> they solid pieces of equipment. you have some
> fragile things in carbs, float bowls other small
> little springs and other doodads.
>
> i guess my question was more how well do they take
> the abuse of rally.

They do okay, but common sense stuff like safety wiring the venturi set-screws, loctiting certain fasteners, using soft-mounts with locking nuts, etc should apply.

Bob

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Opel is a 4-letter word...
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mellow65 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> i guess my question was more how well do they take
> the abuse of rally.

They work fine.
Roadracer poooftahs have nothing to do to keep them awake so that yap endlessly about ultra-trick jetting set ups and "having to re-jet".
Bullshit, set them and forget them and that even with truly wicked cams I run.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2009 03:30PM by john vanlandingham.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mellow65 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > i guess my question was more how well do they
> take
> > the abuse of rally.
>
> They work fine.
> Roadracer poootahs have nothing to do to keep them
> awake so that yap endlessly about ultra-trick
> jetting set ups and "having to re-jet".
> Bullshit, set them and forget them and that even
> with truly wicked cams I run.
>
>

I rejetted the carbs on my Opel like once for a different engine and otherwise never messed with them other than that ever. They are way sturdier than the electronic doodads inside an ecu box.

Keeping in mind that I've had way too many rally cars...I've run Weber (down draft & side draft , IDA, DCOE, DGV ), Mikuni, Solex, DeLorto, Hitachi, SU and even Carter 4 bbl . They all worked with good results and very little fussing after initial set-up. At WOT there is little or no difference between a good set of side drafts and ITBs.

Heck some of us dinosaurs used points and condensors also...oh the savagery of the dark ages.

heymagic Wrote:
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> Heck some of us dinosaurs used points and
> condensors also...oh the savagery of the dark
> ages.

now that's a 4 letter word there, or at least a bunch got said the last time i tried to set up points. that's the first thing to go in any old car i get.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

I'd run some nice big juicy carbs in a minute, only the California smog laws stop me. That and being a cheap-ass.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2009 04:14PM by alkun.

The Colt was running (when it ran) 48 IDF's and they worked fine, then again they were rebuilt shortly before I bought the car.

I had prior experience with webers on my air cooled beetle. The carbs were great but the linkage sure sucked ass.

Not sure if it was just my set up (on the beelte), but perhaps linkage plays an issue with reliability ?

I've heard of people putting pantyhose over the air cleaners to help keep the dust out. I've never done it. Anyone here put this to practice ?

Morten2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Colt was running (when it ran) 48 IDF's and
> they worked fine, then again they were rebuilt
> shortly before I bought the car.
>
> I had prior experience with webers on my air
> cooled beetle. The carbs were great but the
> linkage sure sucked ass.
>
> Not sure if it was just my set up (on the beelte),
> but perhaps linkage plays an issue with
> reliability ?
>
> I've heard of people putting pantyhose over the
> air cleaners to help keep the dust out. I've never
> done it. Anyone here put this to practice ?

We'd be just happy if you kept your panty hose on....

For YOU Gene... I just may take it off...

I like to make my corolla a large pasta dinner. Oddly enough, after I feed it through the throttle body, it seems lethargic and down on power....?

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Ted Andkilde Wrote:
> Yeah, I would think that a wideband and a logging
> program on a palm or a laptop would go a long way
> towards removing the "black art" from carb tuning,

We tried it. It doesn't, not really.

It helps you get the gross tuning characteristics (main jetting) to the nth degree, but when you have to tune the throttle response and basic drivability, you need to trust your gut feeling.

I love tuning Holleys. They're right bastards to get running sweetly, and few people can do it.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Carbs are great, if you can get them tuned right. I had a 44 DCNF on my Saab 96 but could never get the tune right. Not to say that it didn't run OK, but not how I knew it could run.

I bought all the books and they didn't really get me anywhere. If I had some DCOES that are a little easier to access the mains, air corr. and emulsion tubes, then things might have been different.

Also as I was trying a funny set up with a 1.8l engine with one 44DNCF feeding all cylinders. In the end I broke down and built a system for EFI using megasquirt. It runs soooo well now, but that took a LOT of time.

If I could have tuned the carb right, I would have been very happy to use it. They are soooo simple compared with EFI, all you need it a fuel line!

Let me be clear. I never once had a single issue with the carbs on my rally car. We spent about 4 min tuning them when we first started the car and later on a dyno I spent about 20 min on the air correcter to lean high rpm. That was it, not one single thing more. After 1000's of miles on rally stages not one single issue.

They are stronger then the crap in ECU's and the connectors most people use to put after market ecu's on their cars

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In the long run reality always wins.

Derek, you were a beneficiary of the simple fact that Mikuni=the best carbs out there. Once I synched up the 44's on my old 510, I never touched em again, not once, for the next 6 years till I sold the car. For all I know, the next owner is still thrashing the poor thing and although he may be replacing points and caps and rotors and such, I bet he hasn't had to do a thing with induction.

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Jay Woodward
Snohomish, WA
'90 Mazdog Frankenprotege
Chronologically, 46...

what about edelbrock (or carter for the older guys) specifically. i have had really good luck with them in the past on street cars. and you take them apart and they are pretty simple beasts. me and hollys don't like each other to well. everyone i touch wants to fall apart and hemorrhage fuel everywhere so i try to stay away. i have never had any experiences with webbers or any of the other stuff really. my generation grew up with FI so carbs were a thing of the past by then, but i still learned about them when i started getting in to cars.

well over all it sounds like no one really hates carbs if they are set up right. i know FI can give you better tuneablity but i'm sure the old carb guys would argue with that. but you just can't beat the pure easiness of slapping a carb on running a hot wire to your coil and starting it up. doesn't get much better then that.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"