Shell Prep Q's

heymagic Wrote:
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>
> Build a safe car by all means,but seat time on
> stage will benefit you more than epoxy paint and
> perfect seam welds.


I dont know gene. I'm almost positive my welds will give me at LEAST 2 horsepower each.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
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> heymagic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Build a safe car by all means,but seat time
> on
> > stage will benefit you more than epoxy paint
> and
> > perfect seam welds.
>
>
> I dont know gene. I'm almost positive my welds
> will give me at LEAST 2 horsepower each.
>
> Feisty Peacock?


Speaking of welds...had a kid work for me many years ago that always wore heavy tint glasses. Added to the tint of the welding helmets it must have been pretty dark. Always had to check his welds to see if they were actually in the right place. So one day after doing an exhaust job on a Chevy truck I hear him banging and cussing by the hoist. "What's going on?" says I. "Nothing" he grumbles back. Bullshit I'm thinking. I go look, he welded the hoist arm to the frame of the truck. Good weld too. He was one of the most amusing employees I ever had.

Well, I'm pretty glad I removed the rubber goop from the rear wheel wells, I found this in the process:



^^^ Looking up into the wheel well rust is toward the outside of the car



^^^ Picture taken by placing the camera between the rear quarter panel and the trunk wall (I can't get my head in there). Rear quarter panel is to the left. The folded 'taco' abouve the rust is a support for the c-pillar.

So, I'm curious... Overprep? Or (by finding and fixing this) did I just save my shell from damage on the first hard landing?

I'm going ahead with removing the rubber goop on the underside of the car. I want to find all the potential issues while I have the shell stripped.

So, anybody out there actually mess up a shell by seam welding it before installing the cage?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2009 10:23AM by Daniel Buehler.

I seam welded a lot of the shell before getting the cage installed. The distortion was very minimal. The shell moved a lot more during the cage install than any I did with seam welding.

Just take it slow and move between different seams a lot to minimize heat build up.

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-Jason

Thanks for the input.

I was figuring I'd do some stiching in a small area on one side and then do the same small area on the other side. I'm not in any hurry.

Daniel Buehler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I'm pretty glad I removed the rubber goop
> from the rear wheel wells, I found this in the
> process:
>
>
>
> ^^^ Looking up into the wheel well rust is toward
> the outside of the car
>
>
>
> ^^^ Picture taken by placing the camera between
> the rear quarter panel and the trunk wall (I can't
> get my head in there). Rear quarter panel is to
> the left. The folded 'taco' abouve the rust is a
> support for the c-pillar.
>
> So, I'm curious... Overprep? Or (by finding and
> fixing this) did I just save my shell from damage
> on the first hard landing?
>
> I'm going ahead with removing the rubber goop on
> the underside of the car. I want to find all the
> potential issues while I have the shell stripped.
>
> So, anybody out there actually mess up a shell by
> seam welding it before installing the cage?
>
> First rally car, a '94 Subarat is in progress...
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Feb 10, 2009 by
> Daniel Buehler.

That is not over prep, that is finding rust that would otherwise prohibit logbooking the car. Any shell needs to be thoroughly checked over before building into a race car. Poke, tap, scrape, stab anything to find rust or previous collision damage. Total seam welding and spending too much time on primer stuff is over prepping, especially on the first car. I would get all the seam welding done ahead of the cage. Having a cage in the way doing seams or body panel replacement really complicates things. EXCEPT...be aware of where you are putting the footies, may be better to mount them on a flat panel rather that a bead from seam welding.

Keep going you're doing fine !

Gene

Thanks Gene.

I have no excuse for the seam welding. I just wanted to do it. I'm having a heap load of fun building the car and seam welding is somewhat inexpensive. The plan has never been to run it this year. Although I'd love to get to a testing day or run regionals at Tall Pines this year, the goal is 2010 - so dictated by the budget.

Daniel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2009 11:06AM by Daniel Buehler.

A problem we often see is someone starting the "never ending story". They build a car that never gets finished. Take on too much, get discouraged and go away. We as a community lose on these deals. So our intent is not to pick on you or anyone (well not too much ), but to try and help avoid the pitfalls we've seen others do , or have done ourselves. If reasons dictate you can't rally for a year and you have time to do the extra prep then great I'm all for that. We'll help all we can, any time we can.

Gene

heymagic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A problem we often see is someone starting the
> "never ending story". They build a car that never
> gets finished. Take on too much, get discouraged
> and go away. We as a community lose on these
> deals. So our intent is not to pick on you or
> anyone (well not too much ), but to try and help
> avoid the pitfalls we've seen others do , or have
> done ourselves. If reasons dictate you can't
> rally for a year and you have time to do the extra
> prep then great I'm all for that. We'll help all
> we can, any time we can.
>
> Gene

This is one of the reasons, and has been my approach, to run rallyX. If you know you are going to do a slow build it makes a lot of sense to do a good basic shell prep and put the thing back together. Go run rallyX or whatever to keep the fun in it then add, change, prep as time and money allows. You get to drive the car and not just stare at it in the garage.

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-KTurner
Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel.

I used to get super down about all the money and time spent on my car that hadn't ran/been driveable in two years. Now that it's done and running and driveable, it's sat in the driveway since September. I don't even care that I don't drive it, but I love that I can drive it.

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Grant Hughes

This build is the result of 5 years of planing and budgeting. I've done lots of RallyX, a few TSD's, volunteered, worked as a service crew member at TARGA and been a TrackSlut (road courses can be lot-so fun with four spare tires mounted on your car). For a year and a bit I've been Co-Driving as well. I've been tempted in the past three years to just throw what I've got at my car and see where it gets me, but I knew the best way for me to do it was to put some $$$ in the bank and wait it out.

The wife and I got a little house with a nice little garage and I spent the past year with my tools and my car (the one that is a shell now) in the garage going unloved while we fixed up the house. But, now the house is almost done and I have what I need to start the build the way I want. I have what I need to afford the cage, the seats (safe ones) are bought, I have so many spare parts I feel like I own a junk yard, and in the next year I should have no problem saving what I need for my wifes HANS, Suit, and Helmet (she sits in the silly seat whenever possible).

I really, really like working on things and learning new things as I go -NO KIDDING, 5 years ago I didn't know how to do an oil change - so this actually is half the fun for me. I've seen the roads that await, I know a R3 from a R4, I know how no matter what you think you'll spend on a car it will ALWAYS cost more and takes longer than expected, but, as long as I'm working toward my goal... I'm Happy!

Who know, maybe If I'm a little less stuborn, I might actually get the car ready this year...

Thank for all the help so far!

Daniel

Don't feel bad man...

I rallied my old RX...gave up at a point, and started servicing for Narini's.

I got my new shell from the states, and started preping it. While servicing i found out all the little tricks to make my car better, and applied them to what i was building.

At the end it took me over a year to get it ready!

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Chris

Hey Chris, did you ever find that can? Where did you get the stuff (local I assume)?

I'm starting on the underside this week.

Thanks

I'll take a look today...it should be in the basement...

It was local...Sherwin Williams paint store.

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Chris

Daniel Buehler Wrote:
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> And, on that note:
>
> What is recomended for air compressor capacity to
> handle spraying paint?
>
> Edit: for example, will a 15 gal. 200psi tank be
> enough?


Daniel, I read in this thread you don't like doing things twice, so I assume that applies to tools as well. That's a good starter air compressor.. just enough for you to buy some tools and then wonder what it would be like if you had enough compressor to actually run them.

5.4 cfm @ 90 PSI makes for an amazing air compressor for nail guns and stuff. Not so amazing for other things like die grinders etc.

I haven't gotten into the spray guns yet, it might handle it ok, but I imagine you will be doing a fair amount of waiting. But I'll defer to an expert.

Generally buzz words that make me run like hell now are "oil free, maintenance free pump" "direct drive" (it looks like this isn't direct drive).

All that implies loud as sin and running at a bazillion rpm to build pressure.

I bought an air compressor slightly less capable than that one.. it was just enough to get me hooked and annoy the crap out of me. Lots of waiting, loud, bah. I gave it to a friend on permanent loan, I'll borrow it back whenever I need to do trim in the house again.

I ended up buying a sick two stage unit I found on Kijiji. It's 17.9 cfm at 175 psi, but tiny tank --maybe 8 gal?--. Big 22 Amp 240V motor that drives the 16 inch drive wheel on the compressor which has a big piston. Makes for a real satisfying chug chug ssstushhhhhh. I'd compare it to listening to a muffled V8 with a lumpy bump stick versus a weed wacker thats out of balance and has loose parts.

Basically, I can run any tool continuously and it will shut off.

About tank size, it's important but only half the battle. You can have an enormous tank, but if you've got some piss ant compressor with a pencil sized piston you're going to find yourself looking for something else to do whenever it turns on..

Don't forget, you can always add a tank inline.

Oh and another thing, I'd imagine that @200 PSI you're going to end up with really wet air.. so plan on getting a big water trap for when your painting.

Long post I know, but hopefully it will save you from my experience

Cheers

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish