Jack.

"but that's ok because it doesn't look like much fun ..." That's a good one!

It never ceases to amaze me how badly we treat our cars. They take such a shellacking on stage.

Redundant ignition components are common. Two coils and in my case two ignitor units. If one fails I just hop out and switch the plug over.

Robert.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

We used to run a 2nd coil in our cars, but never had a coil fail. Fuel pump failures have seems to be a bit more common in rally. A redundant alternator in rally WOULD be quite useful, IMO. But hard to mount in, and a failure does not stop you cold like a fuel pump.

Regards,
Mark B.

Jon,

When I used to design electronics, one estimate on BIT (Built in test) was that it would take about 50% extra circuitry to have some sort of indicator on 95% of the actual active circuits. Once you get to that point, then your overall reliability has gone down becsue now you have to maintain the BIT circuits. So, there are easy, sensible things to do but you can overkill it.

Oil pressure is a no brainer. The low pressure light is good. (Though I never bothered with one.)

A voltmeter, when interpreted right, can tell you a WHOLE lot about the electrical charging system health.

Fuel pressure at one point (except right at the engine) will be of limited value; the fuel circuit typically has several serial components that can fail; if you wanted to know right off if the pump had failed, a line had been crushed, the filter had clogged, or the regulator had failed, you would need pressure sensors at 4 point, and the one after the regulator would have be a pressure reading, not just a good bad reading. Oh, and plus, you need to monitor the voltage from the fuel pump relay, and maybe some other failsafe points. So that one gets pretty complex, definitely not worth the effort.

ECU-connected device troubleshooting and codes are of varied usefulness, IMO.

SO, there is some sanity to the usual car gages and such. Just IMO, a lot of sensros is probably overthinking this one.

Regards,
Mark B.

OK please excuse the noob post, but to install a second fuel pump on say, the in-tank set up of my 02 WRX, how would I do that? I haven't looked closely enough at one before to know (plus I'm retarded with mechanical stuff).

Eli

gilbrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK please excuse the noob post, but to install a
> second fuel pump on say, the in-tank set up of my
> 02 WRX, how would I do that? I haven't looked
> closely enough at one before to know (plus I'm
> retarded with mechanical stuff).
>
> Eli


Well, the fuel pumps don't have to be in the tank...

Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gilbrock Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OK please excuse the noob post, but to
> install a
> > second fuel pump on say, the in-tank set up
> of my
> > 02 WRX, how would I do that? I haven't
> looked
> > closely enough at one before to know (plus
> I'm
> > retarded with mechanical stuff).
> >
> > Eli
>
>
> Well, the fuel pumps don't have to be in the
> tank...
>


right, but then its a custom solution, eh? buncha an fittings, tube benders, etc.

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > gilbrock Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > OK please excuse the noob post, but to
> > install a
> > > second fuel pump on say, the in-tank set
> up
> > of my
> > > 02 WRX, how would I do that? I haven't
> > looked
> > > closely enough at one before to know
> (plus
> > I'm
> > > retarded with mechanical stuff).
> > >
> > > Eli
> >
> >
> > Well, the fuel pumps don't have to be in the
> > tank...
> >
>
>
> right, but then its a custom solution, eh? buncha
> an fittings, tube benders, etc.


Umm, then don't do it?

Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:

> >
> >
> > right, but then its a custom solution, eh?
> buncha
> > an fittings, tube benders, etc.
>
>
> Umm, then don't do it?


I guess. I was hoping you'd say something like, "Well, if you do it like THIS (insert easy instructions here), then its not so hard."

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

>
> I guess. I was hoping you'd say something like,
> "Well, if you do it like THIS (insert easy
> instructions here), then its not so hard."

[epic line from Classic film]
Janet
"You're not Brad!!!"
Dr Frank-n-furter "SSssssshhhh! you wouldn't want him to see you like THIS!!!!"


>

[/epic line from Classic film]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jon Burke - KI6LSW
> Blog:
> 'Holy Shit!' @ 4:10

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> > > right, but then its a custom solution,
> eh?
> > buncha
> > > an fittings, tube benders, etc.
> >
> >
> > Umm, then don't do it?
>
>
> I guess. I was hoping you'd say something like,
> "Well, if you do it like THIS (insert easy
> instructions here), then its not so hard."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jon Burke - KI6LSW
> Blog:
> 'Holy Shit!' @ 4:10



Well it is EASY but the cost of a/n fittings and line is expensive no matter what. Don't make everything so complicated. Buy tires. Buy Fuel.Buy spares. Buy entries.

---

Gone fishing

Pete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Strength to change what you can, serenity to
> accept what you can't, wisdom to know the
> difference.


Carry a bottle of vodka

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there a way to wire up a relay and a simple
> dummy light (mounted on the dash somewhere) so
> when something shits the bed, the light goes
> bright so you know its dead?
>
> I'm thinking for things like the starter, fuel
> pump, aux lights, etc...which would help take the
> 'guessing' out of diagnosis when something goes
> wrong on stage.
>
>
> For example...Aux lights....wire up the switch
> with an indicator light in series so the light
> goes on when the switch is flipped (so you know
> the relay is getting 12v)....but then AFTER that
> relay, the 12v line that goes to the lights, wire
> in a 2nd reverse relay (that is 'open' w/12v, and
> 'closed' w/o no voltage) that goes back to a 2nd
> indicator light on the dash. If the aux lights
> suddenly go out, and that 2nd indicator light is
> off, then a bulb has gone out. But if that 2nd
> indicator light goes ON, then the relay isn't
> giving out 12V and you know its time to replace
> the relay w/out having to even think about it.
>
> worth it? or too much extra wiring for the effort?



Warning lights for starters, fuel pumps etc. seems like a bit much.


Back in the good ol' days I liked redundancy in wiring for lights,
quality work, quality parts. Quality then (and maybe now) meant aircraft parts
such as switches, circuit breakers, etc.

In my 911 I installed two warning lights for oil pressure, and
a warning light for the alternator (which would indicate the cooling
fan had failed).

In my RX-7 I planned to install a coolant PRESSURE light, but never
got around to doing it.

>secondary fuel pump

waste of money and time and fittings and fuel line and crimp on connectors and relays... a decent and experienced co-driver would do just fine. one of those and a high-torque starter motor could propel the car at least half a mile!

our fuel pump is outside the fuel cell, lower than the fuel cell, and loud as F***. go with an intank pump, or two outside tank normal pumps. definatly dont install this http://www.jegs.com/i/Aeromotive/027/11101/10002/-1 . it does work, but you cannot hear the exhaust or the valves or a busted wheel bearing, or much of anything over it. and if you do install one of them i hope ya got an intercom.


forgot to mention, we have a used one of those pumps for sale- rally blue in color!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2009 01:28AM by brianallmotor.