Fuel filler tube

I am trying to figure out a way to give Tom B. an external fuel fill on his new car. I know that all of the fuel cell needs to be separated from the passenger compartment by a fire and leak proof barrier. I was told to look at Lurch's car as an example. I wonder if there is a more simple way of meeting the requirements. I wonder if a hose inside of a hose would be legal. There are some nice high temp flexible hoses on the market. I am having one hell of a time getting a straight answer out of RA on this. What are your opinions? Gene, I am particularly interested in your thoughts on this.

Thanks, Robert.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

The only thing Mike Hurst told me would work is if you use AN line from the fill plate to the outside, one piece, connection on both sides. It works best if you seal the cell inside the red metal box it comes with, and the fill plate to the lid. Problem solved. Make the outer mounting a failpoint (and obviously us an AN cap or quick connect or something to cap the line so when it fails, it doesnt flop about and spew fuel everywhere.

I drew this out and showed Hurst in person, at doo wops. He said it would work. I'm using this on my rally car, I'll have a -16 fill and vent line, both going to the outside of the car. No open connections inside the vehicle. In theory, if everything is tightened down, it cannot leak inside the car. Oh, the pumps have to be in tank also, or you have to make a little "pump house" to bulkhead them.

Does that help?

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

My thoughts are so fleeting I can't get them to paper (or keyboard)...

Talk with Timm or Lurch and get their input. There are so few fuel cells in 2 box cars I have basically no experience with them.

Maybe put the fill in a catch basin and mount just inside a rear side window . Have the catch basin drain out of the car at the bottom of the widow. make the window out of lexan and fasten it in with dzues fasteners or make a flap out of the bottom of the window. You don't want the fuel fill to be damaged in a side collision and then leak into the passenger compartment.

heymagic Wrote:


You don't want the fuel fill to be
> damaged in a side collision and then leak into the
> passenger compartment.


This is the biggest thing.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

Tim,

Is the connection between your fill line and the top of the cell covered? If so, how is it sealed? What type of connection do you have between the line and the outside of the car?

Gene,

I spent a long time looking at Lurch's pictures. It looks like a nightmare. He did it exactly the way Hurst said. He had to build a "tunnel" over the top of the filler line.

If I could just get a definition of fire proof out of RA I would be much further ahead. The wording on this rule is so vague that it causes all sorts of problems. If I had any sort of influence I would immediately issue a bulletin that clarified the rule, gave some definitions and possibly made suggestions.

Robert.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Rallymech Wrote:
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> Thanks for the suggestions guys!
>
> Tim,
>
> Is the connection between your fill line and the
> top of the cell covered? If so, how is it sealed?
> What type of connection do you have between the
> line and the outside of the car?
>
> Gene,
>
> I spent a long time looking at Lurch's pictures.
> It looks like a nightmare. He did it exactly the
> way Hurst said. He had to build a "tunnel" over
> the top of the filler line.
>
> If I could just get a definition of fire proof out
> of RA I would be much further ahead. The wording
> on this rule is so vague that it causes all sorts
> of problems. If I had any sort of influence I
> would immediately issue a bulletin that clarified
> the rule, gave some definitions and possibly made
> suggestions. and included right next to the rules text, an array of photos of cars which have different designs of fillers which Rally America has blessed with their approval-- since OBVIOUSLY this unique to Rally America only in the ENTIRE WORLD interpretation of the requirements has cause quite literally HUNDREDS of hours of confused discussion-----and that is proof positive that the rules as written--and illustrated---is unclear.
>
> Robert.

A little clarification of the implied part of what you're being so nice saying


I agree with that last bit there, and wonder just how it is that they insist on not illustration things when they have these outlandish ideas that NOBODY else requires and they see YEARS of confusion.

It is simply baffling
PICTURE or PHOTOS (what the hell is the matter with people?)

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2009 09:33AM by john vanlandingham.

You bitches, post up these pics you all be talking about.

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Grant Hughes

Robert, I will be using a fill plate blank with the usual 2 bulkhead fittings for pickup and return, and then the unusual part is I will have 2 -16 valve bulkhead fittings for fueling and vent (one checkvalved)

Because the setup uses bulkhead fittings from the fill plate, and then one solid line to the firewall (through another bulkhead fitting, or through a grommeted hole) it is legal. This only works if you use AN hose, solid line, or rubber line WILL NOT WORK.

But again, you have to have the entire "red box" part of the cell sealed off from the cabin, and if the bottom of the cell is inside, you need to vent the cell CAN to the outside, too.


I'm in class now, but I'll get some pics later.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You bitches, post up these pics you all be talking
> about.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO


Ditto - although I've pretty much given up on an external fuel filler

I'm going to seal the cell box, put another box on top of the cell with a hinged door (sealed with coark) and seal this "filler" box to the top of the cell. Run the vent and filler box drain outside the car sealed with some seal-it grommets. Fuel feed line will run to another stupid box since my fuel pump is external, again sealed with seal-it grommets.

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-Jason

Wouldn't it be an idea to have someone with autocad prowess do a universal (as much as possible) design, have RA approve it and circulate it within the rally community.

If they won't include illustration within the rulebook for this, then perhaps circumvent this stumbling block may not be a bad idea.

I doesn't affect me, but if I was building a car... I'd get a few people together chip in some $ (if none of the peole were proficient with autocad) and get someone to do up a design, email it to RA, get it approved, and be done with the confusion.

Perhaps I'm missing something ?

At this time "email it to RA, get it approved, and be done with the confusion" is the problem.

Robert

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

There's been at least two or three cars here in Denver that found it easier to go back to a stock fuel tank in their VWs.

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Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's been at least two or three cars here in
> Denver that found it easier to go back to a stock
> fuel tank in their VWs.
>

That's odd...it's all so "just do it like this"
Like whatever??!!

What is it now 4 years since this fiasco errupted?




> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I would probably have a fuel cell if it weren't for this rule. I just can't be bothered with trying to figure out a way to comply.

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Grant Hughes

How sealed is "sealed"?

Could you fab a replacement seatback and parcel shelf out of aluminum sheet, pop-riveted together with a strip of piano hinge, as a bulkhead (yeah sealing around the cage tubes would be a nuisance, but not insurmountable)-- or do they require some sort of hermetically sealed compartment?

t

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Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec