Reinforcing engine bay areas

hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You trying to start a fight?? Wassamastta U?
> Your
> > pickelhaube glided down in front of diene
> augen,
> > junge???! Can't you see he said 70% say
> don't.
> > And it doesn't matter who they are, it's on
> the
> > Inter-netz it must be TRUE verstätz?
> >
> > I'm sure all those works cars youäve seen
> were
> > done just to keep guys busy, like scraping
> > kua-gummi off the kasern floor weist du.
> >
> > Diziplin!
> >
> > So get with it arschlauch, 70% against!
>
> I think this discussion is quickly turning into a
> dogma shit slinging contest.
>
> I think the facts are:
>
> All car shells are quickly spot welded together.
>
> Seam welding them adds stiffness and two fifths of
> fuckall weight.. A fair amount of time, but a no
> brainer. If you're worried that this is a major
> safety issue you have issues.
>
> Strengthening the area's of the car that take load
> from driving down the road is a good idea.. it
> saves your shell and can save your rally.
>
> As to strengthening the frontal area of your car
> in front of your front suspension loading zones..
> I think this is safe as long as you do it with
> some common sense. You want to strengthen it so
> that if you go through a ditch or brush something
> you still have all your bits in working order and
> not eating tin. At the same time you don't want
> to turn your car and cage into a battering ram.
>
> If you haven't and hit something hard enough fast
> enough, stuff will become a crumple zone.
>
> I'd worry more about something impaling you.
>
> Remember that crumple zones are for people wearing
> a 3 point seat belt. Not a full body, head and
> neck restraining device.

Stop making sense!!!
What part of 70% saying don't do you not understand?

Who could possibly argue against 70%?

It has to be true.

>
> Andrew McNally
> Hamilton, ON
> 29

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

meh...

Well, now its more like 50-50.

So, as to the turning the car into a battering ram unless your going fast enough... Crash hard, or dont crash at all?

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Timm,

Fuck the crush zone....I would like someone to speak up who hasn't been involved in an off/collision that used a reinforced arm that bent or sheared something else without hurting the reinforced piece as well.

me? I have bent four a-arms, two stitched, and two reinforced, the first two were stitched and I hit a...get this....POT HOLE, two different occasions....destroyed two tires and a fender.

The other two were hitting something stronger than the car was in a collision or Off.

I wouldn't even consider running a factory a-arm without making it beefcake. Do it right and tube it up.

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-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
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oh yeah, I boxed my control arms and am using 3/4 inch steel links with 3/4 in rod ends with a 5/8s bore for the rar 4 links, but i just meant the frame horns in specific. whole shell is stitch welded, cage goes through to the front struts, obviously ends on the turrets, gusseted to the a piller, b piller... soon to be sill.

sounds like I might be reinforcing.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

If you have the engine out of the car, reinforce for sure Timm.
If I ever have the engine out I'm sure I will.

---

Grant Hughes

John,

I am simply stunned that you haven't been surfing Nasioc for advice on this subject.

Robert.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

just start doing this and stop asking questions:

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2009 11:16PM by Jon Burke.

NMI!

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

NMI?

what?

Man, I dont know if I should feel old, or young when I dont understand internet slang.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

I would reinforce everything from the strut towers back a buttload. Reinforce around the suspension pickup points and steering box or rack. Further forward not so much. You do need a crush zone. Trees, dirt banks, other cars( it can happen) all require crush zones. The FIA requires a crush zone. The more you strengthen up front the more shock you transmit into the cage and occupants. The more you weld and strengthen up front the more work to repair when luck runs out. At least that's how I've always done it, and don't run into stuff is a big plus.

I've reinforced upto the front of the strut towers, then just seam welded everything in front of that... except the rad cradle which I also reinforced.
When the non-reinforced stuff bends it sraightens pretty easily...
When I bent the reinforced stuff, I had to cut the top of the strut tower out and re-position it... the body shops frame puller couldn't move it :-)

-Martin.

Tom B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Timm,
>
> Fuck the crush zone....I would like someone to
> speak up who hasn't been involved in an
> off/collision that used a reinforced arm that bent
> or sheared something else without hurting the
> reinforced piece as well.

I'm not really sure what you're asking for, so I'll just tell my own control arm story...

Sentra SE-R, plated control arms, flew across a ditch and hit Earth with the left front wheel. Tie rod was bent. Steering rack broke (blew apart the power assist, but still functioned for a few stages as a manual rack). Ball joint pulled out of the control arm. Control arm itself was straight as a board, though, and the mounting points didn't move.

The Nissan mounted the control arm to a subframe, though, so not only was the control arm mount really beefy, it was replacable. VW and Subaru, if I know anything, both mount straight to the unibody, so part one of the original question seems more pertinent in those cases.

I'd still reinforce the holy hell out of the control arm, but run a lower control arm brace to help keep the mounting points from moving.

On the body, reinforcements, i"ll stay away from the crash arguments and lets just talk about practical wear and tear. Yes, reinforce the crap out of everything rear of the strut towers. JVL's scanned manuals have some very good ideas here. Certainly better than the crap I dreamed up on my own car...

Now, if your skidplate mounts to anything forward of the strut towers, you'll need to reinforce things to withstand a skidplate hit. If you mount to the core support, for example, reinforce not only the bottom of the core support, but whatever must support the load when that area gets lifted straight up or pushed back. My Sentra started buckling the front of the front wheel wells because the core support was being pushed upward. I added small (1" OD, .095 wall) tubes from the front of the frame rails to the strut towers to basically hold the frame rails down.

-Dave

A bit of a hijack - who manufactured the oil cooler?

Not my car, but I recognize it as a Setrab. It looks a lot like the stock oil cooler from a Volvo 240 turbo. I just bought one for $7 on half-price day at pick-your-part.

-Dave