gravel tires at sub-freezing temperatures...

So… help me sort the myths from the truth…

What happens when you run a gravel tire at sub-freezing temperatures?

I’ve heard answers ranging from “nothing, the worked great” to “they chunked and delaminated before I even got to the stage”.

So, what’s your experience?
What Manufacturer?
What Tires?
What compound?
What temperature?
What road surface?
Etc…

the time I tried using some (they were Kumho 700's), they were worse than curling sliders.

What the fuck whaddayamean what surface:
Packed snow, snow and ice?

OK



Bridgestone SS (super soft)
freezing to about 15f= screwdriver handles plastic is grippier.

22-28 PSI

Plain Michelin street ZXZ much more grip on snow.

Horrid tires and mine were better than most friends who had soft and mediums.
In those days I once towed all 5 cars up a snow covered hill when we were out playing and they werte rwd cars all with LSD and summer Bridgestones.
i was in street non lsd Saab with 20 year old snows.

Michelin 14/62 x 15
22-23 psi
new wet snow
Crap with 3 year old mediums
just barely OK--ie no better than a street tire---on new softs


What are you trying to prove or find out?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I've seen several tires that tread blocks completely shattered off the tire in hole pieces.

---

Chris

Many years ago I had the rally car parked outside with nearly new Kumho R700 tires over the winter. One fine freezing cold day (-25 C) I pulled it inside to do some work, drove it barely 150 feet, and found that a bunch of the tread blocks broke clean off, left a trail of rubber chunks from where the car was parked. I was sad.

I haven't had rallytires break up at all in freezing weather, but I have driven on them in the snow. They were sad. I was busy.

---

Jay Woodward
Snohomish, WA
'90 Mazdog Frankenprotege
Chronologically, 46...

I know a guy who keeps all his rally tires in his spare bedroom so they stay at room temperature all year.

I had some old Bridgestone rallies back in the day in snow and the were beyond awfull. No grip, I had a stock Volvo wagon that would literally spin the tires for a city block before getting up to 25mph. Kind of like Lane's car on gravel, but without the extra 400 hp...

I've heard that Yokos will actually break in cold weather.

Thanks for the input!

At Tall pines last year, I brought a set of Yoko (hard) gravels. My driver wanted to run them on a mainly gravel stage, in an attempt to save his only set of snows. There was very little snow and the frozen gravel was wearing through tires fairly quick. We had a quick discussion and decided against it.

I didn't know it would have been that bad!

I thought I'd ask incase I'm in the same situation again.

Daniel Buehler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the input!
>
> At Tall pines last year, I brought a set of Yoko
> (hard) gravels. My driver wanted to run them on a
> mainly gravel stage, in an attempt to save his
> only set of snows. There was very little snow and
> the frozen gravel was wearing through tires fairly
> quick. We had a quick discussion and decided
> against it.
>
> I didn't know it would have been that bad!
>
> I thought I'd ask incase I'm in the same situation
> again.
>
> First rally car, a '94 Subarat is in progress...

I've been in a similar situation, 100% gravel road, freezing temps, no ice or snow. I decided to go with the Blizzak since I was scared the tires would be destroyed by the 30 miles tarmac transit to the first stage.

Result : the 2 rear tires came of the bead coming hot into à 90 degree right hander Other teams used gravel tires and they held fine. Someone even told me that was the best grip he ever experienced in rally!

But my crew chief (who is now on Antoine L'Estage crew) said he've seen all the block being destroyed by driving only a few feet with gravel's on frozen tarmac too. That's why I didn't want to used them

---

Francois

Daniel, interesting that you were seeing lots of tire wear at Tall Pines, what kind of car where you in? I was up there with a set of Nokian's that had been run the year before, I ran them the whole rally and they held up well, at least the ones I did not damage on Peanut because I did not slow down

After that flat I did have to run a gravel tire on the rear of the car. It did not chunk out but was pretty gripless. I discovered how bad gravel tires are on the snow when I tried to take the focus to its maiden rally at Sandblast in '07. It had snowed in my neighborhood and I could not get the trailer to the alley where the car was. I tried to drive the car out of the alley and it got about two feet into the alley and would not go any farther. I ended up having to flat tow it onto the street and push it onto the trailer.

Andrew,

I ran Pines last year as well (ok...6 stages). In an Open class impreza (was setting top 5 times).

I went through 6 Blizzaks in the stages i ran. They were worn enough that they were not good for anything after that.

They were grippy as anything, but wore down very very fast.

---

Chris

John Vanos and I ran 3 stages on brand new Yoko A034s and completely shredded them before the finish of the last (see spin video at the Iron Bridge). After that we switched to Hakka RSIs and they held up better, but still had noticeable wear after two stages at speed and one limping.

To contrast that, Matt Barnes attempted the second loop on gravels and while they were quite good on the bare sections, he intersected with some trees on stage 6, the snowiest of the rally.

---

Ryan Huber
VA3AWD

Once.. i moved the rally car at -40c..she add some yoko A035 in the 30..super soft compound... half of the studs just rip rigth off...like plastic lego blocks...and stayed in the street..

They were almost new...90% left on them...pretty stupid mistake...



First rally was the Tall Pine...went off on the first stage because we add gravel tires..95% of the stage was gravel..the 5% of ice push us of the stage. We manage to get back on the road...drove very carefully till the first service..switch to snow tires..and add a blast for the rest of the rally

Cheers!

We ran gravel tires last year on the first run through Egan Creek, middle/upper old hastings... Pirelli KM6. The first, fast part of Egan Creek was horrible.. sheer ice, the rough stuff was great as the snow wasn't packed down and you got through to the gravel. Middle Old hastings was cancelled that time aroudn, and they were perfect for upper. All in all a bad choice, and we were lucky to stay on the road... we had our closest call all rally in 4th gear around 170km/hr.

Ho dno probems with them breaking up, but it wasn't that cold.

-Martin.