Actually, the cost of the shell is marginal.
I won't build another car that's more that 15 or so years old again.

---

Grant Hughes

Thanks for all the info guys! It's still just an idea I had, and it's nice to have an educated guess to whether the car would even be worth the trouble. I'm a long ways out from buying another rally car, because the one I have is great for now, but I like to think ahead.

Grant, I thought you were gonna seam weld the starlet this winter? Or is that the Xratty that's getting the royal treatment?

---

Ben Hetland
1973 Volvo 142 project car (with some cone-smashing on dirt in it's future, however)

"No. Rally Racing is a back alley sport filled with jackals, headhunters and thugs!"
-Pops Racer (Speed Racer movie)

www.utahrallygroup.com

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, the cost of the shell is marginal.
> I won't build another car that's more that 15 or
> so years old again.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

Grant,

That was basically my point. The cost of most shells is a mere drop in the proverbial bucket. If a few grand difference in the cost of the shell makes a difference, you're in the wrong game (at least that's my impression).

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

Damn Ben. Called me on it.
Would like to do both, will probably just do some of the sheet metal repairs and cage in the Starlet this winter, but technically, that's going to be a partnership car probably.

It's just things like sourcing spare parts, rotting wiring and harness plugs, and such that really turn me off to older cars.

---

Grant Hughes

I know I'm threadjacking my own thread, but I just discovered this Fiat 131 today,

http://www.rallyclassified.com/classified.php/listing/2674

My guess is that it would be a terrible choice, due to lack of parts availability. Also, it's not like I have that moolah laying around in the first place to go buy a second rally car with. But still, I can't help but really want it.

SO, if I hypothetically had the cash to buy it, and did, how bad or good of a decision would that be? Would you be able to swap over a bunch of Volvo 240 stuff? (I know they are not even close to the same car, but the wheelbase might be, so I thought maybe engine, gearbox, rear axle swap.) But I'm not the expert on this stuff, you guys are. So tell be how it is!

---

Ben Hetland
1973 Volvo 142 project car (with some cone-smashing on dirt in it's future, however)

"No. Rally Racing is a back alley sport filled with jackals, headhunters and thugs!"
-Pops Racer (Speed Racer movie)

www.utahrallygroup.com

JVLslittlebuddy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> Which V6 are you thinking of John?
>
> VG30e from the 80s found in the Z31 and
> pathfinders? 160 hp stock but 180-215 managable
> with modest amounts of work.
>
> VG30de (larger and heavier) from the 90s? Little
> bit more power stock, but can be a PITA to work
> on, especially in a S30/130 chasis.
>
>
> Why not a KA24?
>
>
> I would think VG30E.
>
> But the KA24 responds decently well to boost and
> should still fit G5 regulations for displacement
> in addition to being a smaller and slightly
> lighter motor...


Don't forget the later VG33 which can be opened up to 3.4 litres pretty easily.

Plus even the plain jane VG30E (SOHC) is particularly potent when turbocharged...remember the 1000+ hp Nissan IMSA GTP cars that used the production cast iron blocks and alloy heads? All that from SOHC and two-valve per cylinder technology...who needs a twin-cam?

---

Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/

But twin-cams are so sexy...


http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=27&idproduct=68





http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=53

1fastben Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know I'm threadjacking my own thread, but I just
> discovered this Fiat 131 today,
>
>
>
> My guess is that it would be a terrible choice,
> due to lack of parts availability. Also, it's not
> like I have that moolah laying around in the first
> place to go buy a second rally car with. But
> still, I can't help but really want it.
>
> SO, if I hypothetically had the cash to buy it,
> and did, how bad or good of a decision would that
> be? Would you be able to swap over a bunch of
> Volvo 240 stuff? (I know they are not even close
> to the same car, but the wheelbase might be, so I
> thought maybe engine, gearbox, rear axle swap.)
> But I'm not the expert on this stuff, you guys
> are. So tell be how it is!
>
> "No. Rally Racing is a back alley sport filled
> with jackals, headhunters and thugs!"
> -Pops Racer (Speed Racer movie)
>
>
> www.utahrallygroup.com

That Fiat was at a rallyX here just a couple years ago.

Fiat has a good history on rally, both here and obviously Europe. The cars had some rust issues also. Motors are very good, power is good. Stock suspension had some control arm bushing issues. They had a live axle with coil springs so all that can be easily dealt with. The electrical however...not so good.

With any older shell you will really need to breed the damned things. You have to have a couple spare shells just sitting there for parts. Make sure you can get new windshields is my number one peeve. Anything old and desireable, like 510s and AE86s you will always be competeing with a bunch of people for spares. The shocker for me was finding I couldn't get new windshields for an '87 Audi Cpe Gt.

The nice thing about Volvos is nobody wants them and there are a bazillion donors.

1fastben Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know I'm threadjacking my own thread, but I just
> discovered this Fiat 131 today,
>
>
>
> My guess is that it would be a terrible choice,
> due to lack of parts availability. Also, it's not
> like I have that moolah laying around in the first
> place to go buy a second rally car with. But
> still, I can't help but really want it.
>
> SO, if I hypothetically had the cash to buy it,
> and did, how bad or good of a decision would that
> be? Would you be able to swap over a bunch of
> Volvo 240 stuff? (I know they are not even close
> to the same car, but the wheelbase might be, so I
> thought maybe engine, gearbox, rear axle swap.)
> But I'm not the expert on this stuff, you guys
> are. So tell be how it is!
>
> "No. Rally Racing is a back alley sport filled
> with jackals, headhunters and thugs!"
> -Pops Racer (Speed Racer movie)
>
>
> www.utahrallygroup.com

It's a Fiat, how could you go wrong?


FWIW, rockauto.com shows a decent selection of parts for a '76 131. But probably not the parts that you'll need.


Also looks like it would need a re-cage anyways.

---

KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

Here this will make you go blind if you watch it enough



These are one of my favorite rally cars from yesteryear. I actually lust over these more than Escorts ( don't tell anyone though)

Ascona73 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JVLslittlebuddy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >>
> > Which V6 are you thinking of John?
> >
> > VG30e from the 80s found in the Z31 and
> > pathfinders? 160 hp stock but 180-215
> managable
> > with modest amounts of work.
> >
> > VG30de (larger and heavier) from the 90s?
> Little
> > bit more power stock, but can be a PITA to
> work
> > on, especially in a S30/130 chasis.
> >
> >
> > Why not a KA24?
> >
> >
> > I would think VG30E.
> >
> > But the KA24 responds decently well to boost
> and
> > should still fit G5 regulations for
> displacement
> > in addition to being a smaller and slightly
> > lighter motor...
>
>
> Don't forget the later VG33 which can be opened up
> to 3.4 litres pretty easily.
>
> Plus even the plain jane VG30E (SOHC) is
> particularly potent when turbocharged...remember
> the 1000+ hp Nissan IMSA GTP cars that used the
> production cast iron blocks and alloy heads? All
> that from SOHC and two-valve per cylinder
> technology...who needs a twin-cam?
>
>
>
> Opel is a 4-letter word...


Consensus from my Z car perv days was that the vg33 really wasn't worth the hassle (not enough power to overcome the weight). Some guys would ramble on about piston speed and the stroke but I think it was more an argument that the VG30 was more abundant and plenty capable.


Now if we wanted to get really interesting what about a VQ35 or VQ45....

You could always go cool mad tyte JdM yO and go rb25det as well...

One of the locals runs a VQ35 in his open wheeler to the tune of about 375 hp, short wheel base, big wings, 1600 pounds, and 375 hp to the rear wheels.....

Rust bucket.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

FWIW, the August 2009 (Issue 74) of Octane (limey car rag) has a feature on a restored RAC rally 240z that covers some of the prep work the factory did. It doesn't get too technical, and it seems like Datsun really didn't plan on these cars having a long life, but it might be of interest if you still want to pursue the Z car idea.

---

james phillips
Volvo 242 GT (being built...)
Scooby killing 04 Dodge Neon SRT Rallycross monster
Lincoln, NE

jamesp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FWIW, the August 2009 (Issue 74) of Octane (limey
> car rag) has a feature on a restored RAC rally
> 240z that covers some of the prep work the factory
> did. It doesn't get too technical, and it seems
> like Datsun really didn't plan on these cars
> having a long life, but it might be of interest if
> you still want to pursue the Z car idea.
>
> james phillips
> 98 Dodge Neon (Gp2 car in progress)
> 04 Dodge Neon SRT (ready for Rallycross NATS!)
> Lincoln, NE

Years ago I was trying to get some help from Datsun. I had a '73 510 at that time. Their answer was something to the effect " We're interested in selling new Nissans not helping old Datsuns". I told the guy that old reliable Datsuns did a lot to sell new Nissans. They didn't see the logic...

I was working on a 1973 beetle yesterday (ick) and it has been sitting since at least 1996 outside. It still has floors...

You can buy floor pans and most patch panels for Z cars but what a lot of work just to go beat the sheet out of it on gravel roads.

Speaking of 131's what ever happened to the cars the Alaska Rally Team had and ran when new ?

---

As always IMHO

SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
SAAB 99, SAAB 850
SAAB V4, SAAB 99T