Coil overs in an NSU 1000

Ok, so here's your chance to know more about an NSU than you ever wanted to know.

The suspension is quite modern for a late 50s??? design..

My thoughts at the moment:

Re-design front subframe with a coil over that goes to the unibody. This will lighten the subframe up a lot as it wont be seeing the same loads, my plan is to put a strut between the two top mounts and lighten the heck out of what's there now.

Since the rear already loads the unibody, my plan is to keep the same rear suspension, but convert to a coilover in a good spot

JVL, anyone.. comments, questions? The rear looks a hell of a lot like an XR4TI or a BMW.

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

Here she be

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

How am i 'spossed to invent something with no measurements, no nuthin?

Center to center?
Mount to mount?

What do you want?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How am i 'spossed to invent something with no
> measurements, no nuthin?
>
> Center to center?
> Mount to mount?
>
> What do you want?

Measurements help for sure

I was figuring on hashing out locations and provided you wanted to take it on, getting a ball park $$ figure.

As for locations:

On the rear end, I really like the location of the shock, but as you can see in the second picture, it's almost in the front pulley.. so it won't make a good location for a coil over. I want to keep it out of the way of the tire as much as possible.

How about if it went somewhere between where the spring is and the crotch of the arm? I was thinking whatever was a reasonable size/cost was the right length and making it work (within reason).

The front's limit would be fitting through the arms.. either stock or new.. the spring outside diameter upfront is ~3".

I think ~20" would be close to the limit front and rear for an over all package length.. but wouldn't know for sure until mounting etc was finalized.

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

Hey Andrew, do you have any undercar pics of all those cool road race cars from the 60's in your FB gallery?

Or are there any old school tuning books (there are tons for Minis) you could dig up on German Amazon?

t

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Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec

Are those Koni's ???

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As always IMHO

SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
SAAB 99, SAAB 850
SAAB V4, SAAB 99T

SEANT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are those Koni's ???
>
> As always IMHO
>
> SEAN TENNIS
> SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
> SAAB 99, SAAB 850

I think they are Koni's the front however doesn't have them.

The car is quite the mash. 14" wheels up front 13" wheels out back.. no it didn't come from the factory that way.

I'm planning on putting 15" wheels on it.. probably ~10" in the back and ~8" in the front. And yes I found rubber, not sure of the cost yet, but Avon makes a 245/40 R15 which is darn close to the original diameter.

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

Ted Andkilde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Andrew, do you have any undercar pics of all
> those cool road race cars from the 60's in your FB
> gallery?
>
> Or are there any old school tuning books (there
> are tons for Minis) you could dig up on German
> Amazon?

I haven't found anything either in the way of pictures or in the way of books.. haven't looked hard for books however.

Generally, it seems that the prevailing attitude in NSU circles is that the 1000, TT, etc are nearly perfect cars and there's nothing you could possibly do to improve on the german perfection (I'm exaggerating just a bit, but you get the idea).

From looking at all the race parts, the only real change I can see that people do is a shorter upper a arm on the front to increase camber. I haven't seen anything coil over related.

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SEANT Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Are those Koni's ???
> >
> > As always IMHO
> >
> > SEAN TENNIS
> > SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
> > SAAB 99, SAAB 850
>
> I think they are Koni's the front however doesn't
> have them.
>
> The car is quite the mash. 14" wheels up front
> 13" wheels out back.. no it didn't come from the
> factory that way.
>
> I'm planning on putting 15" wheels on it..
> probably ~10" in the back and ~8" in the front.
> And yes I found rubber, not sure of the cost yet,
> but Avon makes a 245/40 R15 which is darn close to
> the original diameter.
>

Really isn't 10 and 8 inches just a little ridiculous on a car this size?
And don't you think a ridiculous choice here will have a knock on effect on a lot of things?

Seriously what's the deal with absurly overly wide tires?

You are aware arent you that there some soport of relationship between size of car/weight/power and the NEED for tire, arent you?

I can never getr a straight answer in the Volvo or Xratty forums to the question why so much wider than real 400-500bhp race cars?
>
>
> Andrew McNally
> Hamilton, ON
> 29

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

My take on wide tires: Ther is a point when the adantage of extra track width is canceled by the softest tire compund being too hard for the weight of the car. All this assumes that the car is track use only. Street or rally use and wide tires creat all sorts of problems. I think that 6 inch wide tires would be perfect for that car.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really isn't 10 and 8 inches just a little
> ridiculous on a car this size?
> And don't you think a ridiculous choice here will
> have a knock on effect on a lot of things?
>
> Seriously what's the deal with absurly overly wide
> tires?
>
> You are aware arent you that there some soport of
> relationship between size of car/weight/power and
> the NEED for tire, arent you?
>
> I can never getr a straight answer in the Volvo or
> Xratty forums to the question why so much wider
> than real 400-500bhp race cars?

I had a feeling I would get something like this.

I'm not doing it because I need to, I'm not doing it to be ultra rad, I'm doing it because I can and want to.

I haven't bought the rims yet as I haven't set the flares, but they are 3 1/2" wide and it looks like they will need around 10" in the back to fill out properly.

Good point about tire compounds.. the tires that will fit are designed for the caterham 7s.. so I'm not too worried.

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

I think some 13X5s would be perfect for that. Then you can get some wickedly cheap 155 Nokians and have some real fun with it.

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Grant Hughes

Should you decide to go smaller rim height one can always go with track rain tires ... Although I lack experience with newer rain tires this is something we did many years ago with great success, & fun !

There is a major trend to put to much tire on vehicles now days, width really only helps to a point then it very quickly becomes a huge negative as the weight of the vehicle becomes too spread over the contact patch and hard to get to working temperatures with street compounds.

There is, or at least was a lot of racing done with NSU's, I'd of thought someone, maybe in UK, has built a wild unit and have done some of the R&D work for suspension mods. Personally I'd look at what is known to work and give it a try before going to something else. Reasoning if for nothing else as to have a comparison bench mark. It is to easy to build something and say, "that works fantastic" only to find out by racing against or driving another car that what one thought was great isn't so much. If you have a opportunity to ride in or drive someone else's modified car it might give some good feed back for your project ...

What are the engine plans?

---

As always IMHO

SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
SAAB 99, SAAB 850
SAAB V4, SAAB 99T

SEANT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Should you decide to go smaller rim height one can
> always go with track rain tires ... Although I
> lack experience with newer rain tires this is
> something we did many years ago with great
> success, & fun !
>
> There is a major trend to put to much tire on
> vehicles now days, width really only helps to a
> point then it very quickly becomes a huge negative
> as the weight of the vehicle becomes too spread
> over the contact patch and hard to get to working
> temperatures with street compounds.
>
> There is, or at least was a lot of racing done
> with NSU's, I'd of thought someone, maybe in UK,
> has built a wild unit and have done some of the
> R&D work for suspension mods. Personally I'd
> look at what is known to work and give it a try
> before going to something else. Reasoning if for
> nothing else as to have a comparison bench mark.
> It is to easy to build something and say, "that
> works fantastic" only to find out by racing
> against or driving another car that what one
> thought was great isn't so much. If you have a
> opportunity to ride in or drive someone else's
> modified car it might give some good feed back for
> your project ...
>
> What are the engine plans?

Sean, 14" rubber seems to be really hard to find. 13" isn't doing much better, and there aren't a lot of good rim choices in a 5x130.

I haven't experienced rain tires however... I thought about it briefly but thought I might get grief from cops??

I'm with you on the too wide tire trend.. I guess I'm in the thick of it myself.. however I'd like to fill in the flares that I have got as I think it will make a smart package.

There's a fellow down the road from my making a very extreme NSU, but It's probably just as far off from completion as my car.

I don't have any concrete engine plans as of yet. I've got a 1200cc at the moment. The k70 motors fit as well and have 1.6 and 1.8l options.. it also appears that the crank from the k70 can go into the air cooled motor.. and it might also be possible to put the water cooled head on the air cooled motor.

I've also seen home made cylinder sleeves.. so there's lots of options.

Cheers

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think some 13X5s would be perfect for that.
> Then you can get some wickedly cheap 155 Nokians
> and have some real fun with it.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO


13x8 is what the racers run.

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish