Andrew McNally Mod Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
It looks like there's a lot of people who know a lot about rotaries.. so I figured I'd ask here.
I had been trying to figure out how I was going to tackle the engine in my NSU.. I want to look at the possibility of putting in a mid mounted rotary with a transaxle. I know it can be done, but what I don't know is: How "compact" can I make a 13B or Renesis motor c/w alternator and say an air conditioning compressor  .. water pump can be electric, don't need power steering.
Could anyone give me a safe ball park space that it would need to occupy? Also, I've heard the hype that the Renesis is a superior design.. has that been born out in reality? Does anyone have any experience here? Thanks for any and all info Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Pete Remner Super Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
Andrew McNally Mod Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Pete Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > The accessories (including water pump) nestle NEXT > to the engine not in front of it. You'd not going > to make it any shorter than it already is. > > The best/easiest/most likely to get mobile way > would be to use a VW aircooled transaxle, given > that adaptor plates/flywheels/starters already > exist for that. There's also just a little bit > available in the aftermarket for VW aircooled > stuff. For a non turbo engine figure on needing > to handle 140-160ft-lb of torque. > > The RX-8 engine is superior in many ways, but it's > held back in others. It makes great power but > there is little to be gained in porting because it > is basically already maxed out. There's no > provision for a distributor, although it APPEARS > that an old style front cover and water pump will > fit. (The gaskets interchange, and the RX-8 > gasket is a neat one-piece rubber embossed metal > one) Pete, I was thinking about hanging the motor up front of the rear axle rather than behind.. so AFAIK, I would need a transaxle from a mid engine car, not a rear engined car. So maybe a porsche 914? My understanding is that it's difficult/impossible to mount a rotary transversly.. which, unfortunately would probably be ideal in my situation. I've been looking high and low for actual motor dimensions for either the 13B or 13B-MSP (Renesis) engines for some time now.. with no luck.. the internet is a wierd beast... loads and loads of info and you get used to finding just about anything. You see, I'm not trying to build a race car or anything like that.. I'm trying to build a really fun, reliable, retro car that my wife wants to drive instead of her car. I'm also into building things and if I can flog it at a track day all the better 
I want to ensure that I can get a rotary mid mounted and still have some kind of usable rear seats (if that makes any sense). If I go this route, I'd probably be looking for a low mileage Renesis motor as they appear to be what I'm looking for in an engine. Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Banned Elite Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
Andrew McNally Mod Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
heymagic Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Any chance you could drop either a FWD GM and > trans , like a 3.1, 3.4, 3.8 ? Or maybe a Fiero > trans with a 3.1 or 3.8? Get the supercharged > version out of a Park Avenue... Or a Cobalt SS > Supecharged/turbo charged engine. Or a MR2 setup. I'm ruling out all Transversely mounted V engines, because I don't want to deal with the exhaust plumbing, the engine would come into the passanger compartment big time up high, there would be no CG or balance benefit, and something else 
A 4 banger is certainly a possibility... a transverse mid engine setup like the MR2 would in theory work, no CG benefit, but better balance.. I'd probably have to move the rear axle back a bit to fit the thing in without putting the engine too far into the cabin (not a big big deal).. Some sort of removable bulkhead could be devised so I could service the thing. I'm still stuck on a mid mounted rotary.. Things I like: - NSU was the first company to experience the (b)leading edge of wankel technology - I think I can get the drive line in and still put a dog and infant in the back seat - cg and weight balance are majorly improved. - I can use the back of the car as a trunk and engineer a crumple zone. Problems: Might have to move axle back, have to figure out how I'm going to service it. Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Andrew McNally Mod Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
man this is complicated
Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Andrew McNally Mod Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Andrew McNally Mod Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
John Vanlandingham Ultra Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Andrew McNally Mod Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
john vanlandingham Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > What's wrong with the motor that came in it? > I don't like the German penchant back then for > domes and no quench pads, but according to some, I > understand nothing so fuck me, eh? > > But a 1000cc OHC thing looks like it could be fun > with minimal moderisation. John, good point. I'm just making sure I've looked at all the options.. the car that I'm going to be working on is going to be a patch work quilt, so it's not pretty. Seems like ~1k will get me a good consistant heater, that aint so bad!
Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Ted Andkilde Junior Moderator Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Join Date: 04/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 329 Rally Car: 1968 Mini |
John Vanlandingham Ultra Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Banned Super Moderator Location: the end of the universe Join Date: 02/12/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,432 Rally Car: 1980 Opel Ascona B |
Ted Andkilde Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Hey Andrew > > I believe you can flip the ring gear to the other > side and run the VW box in a mid engined > configuration. > > Yes, indeed you can. In fact, the Viking IV research vehicle built by Western Washington University's Vehicle Research Institute (where I got my schoolin') used a VW transaxle with the ring gear flipped and a Mazda Rotory engine to set a class record at Bonneville. 
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Banned Elite Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
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