Andrew McNally Mega Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Ok, so I've been thinking and looking and thinking (it's been hell let me tell you! <grin>
It looks like I can take my NSU transmission and relatively easily turn it into a motorcycle transaxle c/w reverse and locker. Check out this link and the general site, lots of cool NSU porn. http://stefannsu.piranho.de/getriebe_nsu_tts.htm My idea is to make the transmission have reverse and a straight through and leave the rest alone.. might need to do some modifications for bolting it to the bike engine.. but other than that it seems stupid easy (and cheap) What am I missing? Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Andrew McNally Mega Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Starting in around 1998 BMW started making a flat 1200cc water cooled 4 banger.. I think K1200 is the general designation.
It appears that if I loose the oil pan and gearbox.. a new oil pan could be fabricated to allow the two to mate. Location of the oil pump might be an issue. CCW rotation could be an issue. It doesn't look like the NSU R&P can be flipped without some work. It also appears that if I lose the battery box, the whole thing will fit with some monkeying of the mounts. Here's a picture.. does anyone have any thoughts? Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Ted Andkilde Senior Moderator Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Join Date: 04/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 329 Rally Car: 1968 Mini |
My gut feeling on a bike engined car is to simplify wherever possible Andrew. You've already got a lovely 6 speed sequential box that came free with your crotch rocket motor, putting anything in between it and your rear axle adds weight, complexity and additional driveline losses to the equation.
My vote is for a chain driven rear diff like the Taylor Race setup, or the Quaife, or to be cheap, convert an old viscous LSD (mitsu, etc) into a homebrew chain drive rig like DSR and FSAE cars all use (there's a three bolt mitsu pumpkin with LSD and halfshafts in my garage for free with your name on it). If you "must" have reverse, go with a converted starter motor with a a ring gear mounted to the diff, simple, relatively lightweight and isolated from the driveline. Viscous LSD's aren't the greatest LSD's but the self contained design lends itself well to chain drive conversion, no need to seal it up to keep the spider gears lubed, yada, yada. A couple of pics for inspiration, one is the chain driven setup from MK engineering for a Mini, the other is a twin bike engined autograss car. Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec |
Ted Andkilde Senior Moderator Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Join Date: 04/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 329 Rally Car: 1968 Mini |
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Ted Andkilde Senior Moderator Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Join Date: 04/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 329 Rally Car: 1968 Mini |
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Andrew McNally Mega Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Ted Andkilde Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > My gut feeling on a bike engined car is to > simplify wherever possible Andrew. You've already > got a lovely 6 speed sequential box that came free > with your crotch rocket motor, putting anything in > between it and your rear axle adds weight, > complexity and additional driveline losses to the > equation. I hear you Ted. My thought was to not buy the transmission or sell it if it came with the motor. I know I know.. why the hell would I do that I'm not looking to race the thing and without the transmission on that K1200.. the flywheel / clutch are basically in the exact spot I want them to be.
I might rethink this a bit more as it turns out an LSD for my NSU transaxle looks like it's about 900 euros..................... > My vote is for a chain driven rear diff like the > Taylor Race setup, or the Quaife, or to be cheap, > convert an old viscous LSD (mitsu, etc) into a > homebrew chain drive rig like DSR and FSAE cars > all use (there's a three bolt mitsu pumpkin with > LSD and halfshafts in my garage for free with your > name on it). If you "must" have reverse, go with a > converted starter motor with a a ring gear mounted > to the diff, simple, relatively lightweight and > isolated from the driveline. Viscous LSD's aren't > the greatest LSD's but the self contained design > lends itself well to chain drive conversion, no > need to seal it up to keep the spider gears lubed, > yada, yada. Yeah chain drive would make it easier no doubt. But I'd like to have the most "factory" ish feel when it's done. Keep in mind I want my wife to drive it! Reverse is a must
Thanks for the inspiration. One guy has mentioned snowmobile engines.. but I'm having trouble with that concept. Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Ted Andkilde Senior Moderator Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Join Date: 04/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 329 Rally Car: 1968 Mini |
Andrew McNally Mega Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Ted Andkilde Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Well, how rough is your parts car? > > If the external bits of the shell are salvagable > and the underbody is rusty it might make a better > candidate for a bike transplant with a > semi-tubeframe. > > A tuned standard NSU engine makes a pretty potent > package as is, and you have a really nice > rust-free shell. I know no-one ever thinks > "resale" when building a project but a hotted up > "real" NSU will be worth more to a > collector/enthusiast than a "frankenNSU". > > t > > Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly > creative man -- Sir Alec Ted, That's just it.. I've got a basically rust free 1000 shell.. which unless I swap some tags, will never be a true TT or TTS. It however needs a lot of panel replacement. The parts car I'm picking up tomorrow... it has a really rotten floor.. but looks like the panels are better than the non rusted one. I don't think I could get my money out of either a faithfully built NSU or a modified one. (can you ever get your money out??) So basically, I'm just looking at options to build a car that will be fun to drive, can be driven daily if you so choose, with usable space. I'm going to try my hand at body dropping the parts car.. worst case scenario is I fuck it up royally and I take the panels and put them on the non rusted car. At any rate the parts car is nearly worth what I'm paying for the windshield (that I need) alone. So no worries 
Back to the BMW motor mated to the NSU transaxle.. I get 120ish ponies which would be insane cash to build the NSU motor to. Looks like it will fit not just as well, but better. It's water cooled so I can have loads of glorious heat.. and if I wanted to turbo charge it for shits and giggles.. it won't be an issue. One possibility would be to mount the bmw motor mid ship with it's gearbox.. and since it's shaft driven, I would just need to get a diff that made the wheels go the right way. $1500 bucks right now would buy me a wrecked 2002 K1200RS with 130 ponies. With the nsu motor that would get me the right cylinder head. Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Andrew McNally Mega Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Ted Andkilde Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > > > Is a you tube vid of electric reverse running on a > conventional propshaft driven rear diff. > > And pic below is a rendering of an electric > reverse setup for a chain driven diff. I think that's a good solution to the problem.. but imagine parallel parking with that in a busy city. Seems like it could be funny Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Ted Andkilde Senior Moderator Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Join Date: 04/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 329 Rally Car: 1968 Mini |
hudson Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- >imagine parallel parking with that in a busy > city. Seems like it could be funny Nigh on impossible in a tight city parking spot, but fine for jockeying about in the parking lot at the cone-derby, the paddock at a track-day or at the start line of the hillclimb though <g>. But, as far as that goes, parallel parking any high strung car with a hot cam isn't going to be much of a treat. And, while it's sweet (newlyweds are just so darn cute ) that you want to have your wife be able to drive the car, the reality is women only tolerate our greasy, smelly, dirty old car habits because old cars are marginally less annoying than the philandering and boozing that we offer as an alternative. I'd just save up and buy her a Fiat 500 Abarth when they're available in a couple of years, peppy, cute, cuddly, reliable (as only a car with a warranty and an 800# for roadside assistance can be) won't fill up with exhaust fumes or spit fuel all over her -- she'll love it.
t Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec |
Ted Andkilde Senior Moderator Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Join Date: 04/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 329 Rally Car: 1968 Mini |
Kris Dahl Godlike Moderator Location: Issaquah, WA Join Date: 02/13/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 282 Rally Car: Integra, Civic |
Andrew McNally Mega Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Ted Andkilde Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > edit: I heart Wiki-pedia... > > Power 163 hp (122 kW) @ 10,250 rpm > Torque 94 ft·lbf (127 N·m) @ 8,250 rpm I hadn't seen numbers that high, but everything has been 120hp+ > Compare with the #'s you were expecting from the > tweaked NSU mill. http://www.nsu-tt.de/motortuning.html In the middle of the page you can buy anything from 40 HP up to ~140 HP. Watch the cost of the motors
$10,000 moose bucks for a little less than 140 hp. Ok, that's extreme.. but to buy a 100 hp motor already built (not lucking out with someone dumping a hot one that's not smoked) .. is still going to run you 4-5 grand plus shipping
> For some strange reason I had it in my head you > were looking at using both the bike gearbox and > the car gearbox in parallel -- I didn't realize > you could separate the bike box. > > How sturdy are the NSU boxes? I had thought that initially.. like using a stripped nsu box with 1:1 and reverse.. but then thought of that idea. One other option.. is HONDA GOLDWINGZ.. it`s got an electric reverse.. and it looks like all you would need to do is slap a differential on the back of the damn thing. The newer wingz use the engine as a stressed member.. so that can`t be too difficult.. dimensions would be nice tho. Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Andrew McNally Mega Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Ted Andkilde Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Nigh on impossible in a tight city parking spot, > but fine for jockeying about in the parking lot at > the cone-derby, the paddock at a track-day or at > the start line of the hillclimb though <g>. > > But, as far as that goes, parallel parking any > high strung car with a hot cam isn't going to be > much of a treat. > > And, while it's sweet (newlyweds are just so darn > cute ) that you want to have your wife be able to > drive the car, the reality is women only tolerate > our greasy, smelly, dirty old car habits because > old cars are marginally less annoying than the > philandering and boozing that we offer as an > alternative. I'd just save up and buy her a Fiat > 500 Abarth when they're available in a couple of > years, peppy, cute, cuddly, reliable (as only a > car with a warranty and an 800# for roadside > assistance can be) won't fill up with exhaust > fumes or spit fuel all over her -- she'll love > it. hehe.. seriously though.. if I make the car `nice` enough that she want`s to drive it every once in a while and enjoys doing it.. then I would likely meet less resistance in the future Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Ted Andkilde Senior Moderator Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Join Date: 04/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 329 Rally Car: 1968 Mini |
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