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hudson
Andrew McNally
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Turbo Charged Air Cooled Motors
October 17, 2009 08:19PM
Ted Andkilde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about a mildly built NSU mill, 8:1
> compression, 270 cam and a $200 eBay Cooper S
> supercharger running around 7 or 8 psi? roughly
> 125 hp, 120 ft/lbs for cheap.

I`m not exactly sure where you would get the drive from and mount it.. but can`t be harder than an engine swap!

Turbo charging an air cooled car makes me think your asking for over heating. I don`t know if that`s true or not.

I`ve got rough goldwing motor dimensions now.. 24" wide x 17" high x 21 1/2" long (out put shaft of transmission)

I'm gonna go have a looky at the shell and see how that would look.



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hudson
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Stick a diff directly on the back of a goldwing flat 6
October 17, 2009 08:28PM
If I move my rear axle back a few inches I can still have rear seats.



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hudson
Andrew McNally
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BAH no text
October 17, 2009 08:30PM
krisdahl Wrote:




Andrew M
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2009 08:31PM by hudson.
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hudson
Andrew McNally
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Electric Reverse
October 17, 2009 08:31PM
krisdahl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was thinking of doing something like the YouTube
> video, but I'm not sure how they are mounting the
> reverse sprocket. The differential cover would
> have to be structural if that is where it is
> mounting to. Not sure if that is the greatest
> idea, even if it is just for reversing.
>
> I was leaning towards doing a idler gear on the
> drive chain, and engaged with a starter
> solenoid-type setup.


This is one setup I've seen





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Attachments:
open | download - electric reverse.jpg (59.9 KB)
electric reverse.jpg
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: Electric Reverse
October 17, 2009 09:59PM
hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> krisdahl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I was thinking of doing something like the
> YouTube
> > video, but I'm not sure how they are mounting
> the
> > reverse sprocket. The differential cover
> would
> > have to be structural if that is where it is
> > mounting to. Not sure if that is the
> greatest
> > idea, even if it is just for reversing.
> >
> > I was leaning towards doing a idler gear on
> the
> > drive chain, and engaged with a starter
> > solenoid-type setup.
>
>
> This is one setup I've seen

Obviously it's brilliant.
Just look at the colors.
>
>
>
> Andrew McNally
> Hamilton, ON
> 29






John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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CALL +1 206 431-9696
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Ted Andkilde
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Re: Turbo Charged Air Cooled Motors
October 17, 2009 10:50PM
hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I`m not exactly sure where you would get the drive
> from and mount it.. but can`t be harder than an
> engine swap!
>
> Turbo charging an air cooled car makes me think
> your asking for over heating. I don`t know if
> that`s true or not.

It's a fairly popular mod for old Mini's at the moment they build a crude bracket cum intake manifold out of old fenceposts and angle iron and run a long tortuous pipe over the top of the clutch cover to tuck the carb down near the grille -- non-intercooled and hideously engineered. It works great.

There was some other German manufacturer that fiddled about with air-cooled turbo cars for a while but they gave it up to build water cooled hairdresser cars a few years back and bought Volkswagen last year, but had to give it back, it'll take me a minute but the name will come to me, eventually...

Maybe Jens would know smiling smiley

I imagine a few extra vents and ducts would take care of any cooling issues, perhaps a dab of water injection -- it's the same power you'd be making with the $8000 option anyway.







Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec
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hudson
Andrew McNally
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Re: Turbo Charged Air Cooled Motors
October 17, 2009 11:02PM
Ted Andkilde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a fairly popular mod for old Mini's at the
> moment they build a crude bracket cum intake
> manifold out of old fenceposts and angle iron and
> run a long tortuous pipe over the top of the
> clutch cover to tuck the carb down near the grille
> -- non-intercooled and hideously engineered. It
> works great.

I could give that a go for sure.. my 1200 cc motor has the massive low compression ratio head. Would be fun for sure winking smiley

> There was some other German manufacturer that
> fiddled about with air-cooled turbo cars for a
> while but they gave it up to build water cooled
> hairdresser cars a few years back and bought
> Volkswagen last year, but had to give it back,
> it'll take me a minute but the name will come to
> me, eventually...
>
> Maybe Jens would know
>
> I imagine a few extra vents and ducts would take
> care of any cooling issues, perhaps a dab of water
> injection -- it's the same power you'd be making
> with the $8000 option anyway.

Yeah.. air cooled.. sigh. I just have no experience with it and I just don't like the heat options winking smiley



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hudson
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Re: The motor that looks like it could be made to bolt up
October 18, 2009 12:20AM
BMW motor definitely looks CCW... so possible solution is to rotate NSU transaxle 180deg. Makes plumbing the motor a lot easier.

Shift linkage will require thought.

Possibly weaker turning the gears the wrong way? Flip all the gears around? Get straight cut? smiling smiley



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Ted Andkilde
Ted Andkilde
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Re: The motor that looks like it could be made to bolt up
October 19, 2009 01:49PM
What determines engine rotation? It's a cyclical motion so I don't imagine you'd stress anything out spinning it backwards. New cam? New ignition mapping?

I know they do "handed" marine engines to counteract prop torque in twin applications, so it's definitely possible with a 4 stroke engine.

t



Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec
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hudson
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Re: The motor that looks like it could be made to bolt up
October 19, 2009 02:42PM
Ted Andkilde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What determines engine rotation? It's a cyclical
> motion so I don't imagine you'd stress anything
> out spinning it backwards. New cam? New ignition
> mapping?
>
> I know they do "handed" marine engines to
> counteract prop torque in twin applications, so
> it's definitely possible with a 4 stroke engine.
>
> t

As far as I understand, it can be a very nightmarish job.. if the cams aren't symmetrical that's a problem.. water pump can be a problem.. etc etc etc

The engine will package better if I leave the rotation alone and can get the NSU box to work backwards (straight cut gears apparently a must.. unless I can change the stock gears around).

The other option is maybe a honda box because they make some wrong turn engines.



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SEANT
SEAN TENNIS
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Re: This is too easy, I must be missing something
October 19, 2009 08:17PM
The BMW bike engine torque is really high up the RPM's, would need to see the power graph to see if it would be worth it. High Hp numbers come from hi revving but in real world driving it's tuff to live with, look at Honda's high HP cars, great on the track not so good in the real world. Porsche air cooled Turbo race cars that I know about had to run no leaner then 10.8:1 range or else they'd blow up, that is rich and dirty ...

Good mid torque is what will make for fun daily driving.



As always IMHO

SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
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SAAB V4, SAAB 99T
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Tim Taylor
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Re: The motor that looks like it could be made to bolt up
October 19, 2009 08:36PM
hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The engine will package better if I leave the
> rotation alone and can get the NSU box to work
> backwards (straight cut gears apparently a must..
> unless I can change the stock gears around).

If you can live with the noise of strait cut gears then you have no problems reversing the rotation. Used stock car quick change gears are ~$20-30 on eBay in any ratio you desire.



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hudson
Andrew McNally
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Re: This is too easy, I must be missing something
October 19, 2009 09:01PM
SEANT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The BMW bike engine torque is really high up the
> RPM's, would need to see the power graph to see if
> it would be worth it. High Hp numbers come from hi
> revving but in real world driving it's tuff to
> live with, look at Honda's high HP cars, great on
> the track not so good in the real world. Porsche
> air cooled Turbo race cars that I know about had
> to run no leaner then 10.8:1 range or else they'd
> blow up, that is rich and dirty ...
>
> Good mid torque is what will make for fun daily
> driving.

Sean, I'm totally with you. I haven't seen the graph, but since the HP number is 2.5 times bigger than what I would have if I made the engine run.. I'm thinking it can't be that bad!

We're talking stock ~50 hp here.

I think turbo charging the BMW motor would be viable.. just put in a small turbo that kicked in early to help out the mid range?? It is a water cooled engine, so you wouldn't have to run it pig rich.





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hudson
Andrew McNally
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Re: The motor that looks like it could be made to bolt up
October 19, 2009 09:07PM
Tim Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you can live with the noise of strait cut gears
> then you have no problems reversing the rotation.
> Used stock car quick change gears are ~$20-30 on
> eBay in any ratio you desire.

So you're thinking swap in the gears into the existing box?

I've been looking at it some more.. and it looks like if I rotate the box, I will run into the mounts for the rear arms...

It's starting to look like machining a box that's ideal isn't so ludicrous. I have a friend from kindergarden who runs a machine shop.. shouldn't be TOO expensive.

This is still a long way out too.. but if it's a matter of finding the right motor that's got the same power as a very expensive NSU motor build.. it might make sense.



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Attachments:
open | download - NSU Engine Bay_ph.jpg (86.8 KB)
NSU Engine Bay_ph.jpg
Tim Taylor
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Re: The motor that looks like it could be made to bolt up
October 19, 2009 09:18PM
hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It's starting to look like machining a box that's
> ideal isn't so ludicrous. I have a friend from
> kindergarden who runs a machine shop.. shouldn't
> be TOO expensive.

Custom box, it's really not that hard if you can live with the noise of strait cut gears...




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