Golf EVO III - 16G on a VW 16v questions

Since the proverbial cat is out of the bag....

We are in the late planning stages of moving to a turbo setup for the rally team.

We need a cost effective way to run the car, with spare parts. Our goal is to make a tough, reliable system with the ability to swap a turbo at service (in less than a half an hour). All the while making around 200-300whp. I am looking for moderate power, with a linear torque curve and the turbo needs to spool EARLY and make power semi-efficiently up to around 7000 RPM. Full boost at 3700 RPM to 7000RPM with the gearing we will be running. We don't need a TON of power, we just need the car to accelerate efficently.

So our current plan is to run a Mitsu TD05 16G "big" turbo at about 12-15 psi. Motor will be an ABA bottom end with a ported 16V head, the typical 8:1 combo. It will be air to water intercooled for low speed events and to protect the intercooler from damage at the front of the vehicle.

Gearing will be an 02A bastard transmission, mostly 02J bits:
4.235 Ring and Pinion
3.300
1.944 1-2 drop to 4120 RPM-2880RPM Drop
1.345 2-3 drop to 4840 RPM-2160RPM Drop
1.029 3-4 drop to 5355 RPM-1645RPM Drop
0.838 4-5 drop to 5700 RPM-1300RPM Drop


A few questions

How reliable is the internal wastegate on this turbo?

I am looking for a good intercooler setup, our demands from intercooling are not that great, but I need something that is nuts on reliable, any suggestions?

Your thoughts and opinions are greatly appreciated.

---

-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT

Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2009 03:25PM by Tom B.

Andrew Havas' Mk3 Golf turbo (originally built by his brother Chris) is running a Subaru Td05 turbo. Just a little tidbit of information you may or may not already know. Do with it what you will.

Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew Havas' Mk3 Golf turbo (originally built by
> his brother Chris) is running a Subaru Td05 turbo.
> Just a little tidbit of information you may or
> may not already know. Do with it what you will.


For a diesel that's montrously ginormously huge.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Havas' car is a 1.8T

---

rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

While an awesome turbo it's a bit big for what you're after. That turbo will comfortable make over 350whp. 8:1 comp REALLY? Is this a street car . I'd be thinking 9:1 atleast and a regular 16g.

---

Gone fishing

I bet my 1.8l car would freaking *fly* with the GT28r turbo it has, with the restrictor outta the way. Pal of mine has one on his street car and he says full boost appears by 2500rpm. I should have gone with the gt25r, prolly zero lag with that one.

---

Jay Woodward
Snohomish, WA
'90 Mazdog Frankenprotege
Chronologically, 46...

A regular TD05 would work pretty well, on a 1.8L.

Stock STi turbos would work well also, they can be had for like $400 us in like new condition.

Add up the weight on a water/air intercooler system, by the time to put the core in the intake stream, run the water lines, run a heat exchanger in the front, mount a pump, and fill it with water....it will be pretty heavy.

A well placed and thought out front mount intercooler might be a better solution....put it in a good location..not in the bumper opening like every guy on the street. Look at putting it behind the grill.

---

Chris

I had a big 16G on my Talon. Then they made us put restrictors in and it wasn't as much fun. Pretty big turbo.
My Miata runs a GT28. 1.8l, and TONS of power all the way to redline. People say it's small, but it'll pump lots of boost right up to 7000+ Not much lag at all.

Actually I put an IHI VF22 on Chris' Golf (1.8T) originally. That got 'smoked' at Rally Tennesee when the car caught fire with Andrew driving, so now it has has a stock VF39 turbo from an STI on the car.

Seems to run well enough, Andrew said that at Charlevoix the car had too much power for him...not a statement he's normally apt to make.

---

Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/

I spoke with Scott Williams at USRT about this during lunch today..

He sent me this link...I think you should call him

http://www.usrallyteam.com/content/products/intercooler/air_water/

---

____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

david amor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While an awesome turbo it's a bit big for what
> you're after. That turbo will comfortable make
> over 350whp. 8:1 comp REALLY? Is this a street car
> . I'd be thinking 9:1 atleast and a regular 16g.
>
> "this is certainly not a game for flyweights or
> ping-pong players-all arguments to the contrary"
> -C.B.

the 8:1 figure is closer to 8.25 to 8.5, but it is a cost effective way to run the car, and by running the numbers we are well into boost by 1900rpm with the big wheel 16g, I like the idea of running this turbo, on paper it looks real good, and the potential to do different mapping for different events is awesome to me.

---

-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT

Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA

I was planning on calling the USRT guys about this anyways, I see good and bad with their setup....I like the idea of the air to water setup and I know that at one point it was used in rally, just wondering if anyone has any real world experience with it..

---

-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT

Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA

I think the turbo out of my 2005 Legacy GT is sitting on a bench at Mr. Lane's shop, I broke the waste gate actuator, so I replaced it, I am happy to give it to you if it is still around.

I recommend having the ECU look at boost and do some sort of safety cut if there is a big over boost, this happens at 18.5psi on the Legacy with no waste gate.

---

In the long run reality always wins.

the benefit to using a Subaru, or mitsu type fitment, is there are generally plenty of spares in the service area, and on the interwebs...generally cheap.

and once you are set-up, you there are many "bolt on" upgrade paths.


For example...you buy or acquire a $30 blown up stock WRX turbo from someone, you use it as a "solid" and build your manifold, flanges, and all associated plumbing. Get that all buttoned up, and then bolt on a stock STi turbo in a matter of probably minutes.

---

Chris

Ascona73 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually I put an IHI VF22 on Chris' Golf (1.8T)
> originally. That got 'smoked' at Rally Tennesee
> when the car caught fire with Andrew driving, so
> now it has has a stock VF39 turbo from an STI on
> the car.
>

Doh! I knew it was something like that. The VF22 was the biggest turbo Subaru put on the WRX. Ball bearing center section as well.


> Seems to run well enough, Andrew said that at
> Charlevoix the car had too much power for
> him...not a statement he's normally apt to make.
>
>

Huh? What a wuss. He's just use to that torqueless rotory.