Andrew McNally Godlike Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Ted Andkilde Junior Moderator Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Join Date: 04/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 329 Rally Car: 1968 Mini |
Andrew McNally Godlike Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Andrew McNally Godlike Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Ted Andkilde Junior Moderator Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Join Date: 04/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 329 Rally Car: 1968 Mini |
Andrew McNally Godlike Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Ted Andkilde Wrote:
> But you're stuck dealing with the relatively awful > Haldex electronically controlled awd which is > sorta OK-ish for a hairdresser's car, but not much > else. I'll take your word for it  They're not my thing either.
> If I recall correctly the RS200 was permanent awd, > biased to rear, not rear with part-time front. Is > north/south as opposed to transverse as well. You're right it's North South.. I checked it out after. > The 4wd Sierra stuff might work, extend the front > propshaft and go with a very short rear prop -- > still might push the engine too far into the > passenger compartment for comfort though. Fuck the 4wd Sierra stuff. way expensive, get a skyline transmission.. 500 bucks all day every day in Toronto.. and they've got half decent ratios too. > Actually, the Milne x-fer box could work with an > Audi or Scooby 4wd transaxle, both have built in > center diffs and the transaxle setup would allow > you to move the engine back into a decent > mid-position. The front prop would have a pretty > circuitous route though, at least two sections and > a couple of support bearings. I've been looking at it a fair bit as you can tell.. and the biggest stumbling block I've seen with using something like a Scooby tranny is that you're trying to drive the rear wheels with what was designed to drive the front wheels and vice versa for the other end.. this in a lot of situations means you've got to figure out how you're going to get a reliable torque split going the other way. For instance, the skyline only powers the front when the rear slips.. so trying to power the rear wheels through the front transfer case is not exactly straight forward. > Just eyeballing it, the Milne setup isn't that far > removed from Tim's setup in the Z600 LeMons car > either -- just move the output to the same side as > the input and you're pretty much there... It's a helluva lot like Tim's setup. My understanding is the Milner setup lets you go front and back though so you can flip engine rotation and power front and rear ends of the car.. the Milner stuff is all for crazy fast 4x4 action dewdz. If you're still looking at Motorcycle Engines etc.. looks like the best transaxle is the Renault UN1 or UN5 (way bigger crown and pinion options in the UN5).. and they are super easy to flip.. catch is, you just need to find one. Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Tim Taylor Professional Moderator Location: Oakland, CA Join Date: 02/02/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 622 Rally Car: Mazda 323 GTX |
Andrew McNally Godlike Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Tim Taylor Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Stop tempting me, it's so easy to make my transfer > case feed power out the front too... You have to either do that or get one of those Subaru 360s and do that up.. hell there's a 360 van for sale.. that would make a killer lemons car Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Ted Andkilde Junior Moderator Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Join Date: 04/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 329 Rally Car: 1968 Mini |
Well the Scoobies are "real" awd and are quite happy to split torque 50/50.
I was thinking about it a bit more. If you weren't too hung up on equal length driveshafts you could shift the engine/transaxle 6" to the right and the front diff 6" left you could package it nicely and offset some of the fat-bloke behind the wheel's weight. Use a simple spaceframe and a lightweight shell and you're off to challenge-sur-glace and the hillclimb course... Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec |
Andrew McNally Godlike Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Andrew McNally Godlike Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Ted Andkilde Junior Moderator Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Join Date: 04/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 329 Rally Car: 1968 Mini |
Andrew McNally Godlike Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Ted Andkilde Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Yeah, the entry fees are reasonable and you get a > bunch of runs in on a weekend. RA has gotten into > bed with the east coast hillclimb circuit which > scares me a bit -- I can see this jacking up the > entry fees and adding all sorts of extraneous > safety crap and classing restrictions as a > consequence. Might just be doom-saying, but... Well there goes that idea! All jesting aside, I'd say the safety stuff is almost a given and it's hard to see how the entry costs will go down Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Ted Andkilde Junior Moderator Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Join Date: 04/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 329 Rally Car: 1968 Mini |
hudson Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > > What are you planning for a motor? I'm just spitballing -- I would "someday" like to build an rs200 or Stratos clone as a fun car. I was thinking Duratec/EcoTec for this thing, fairly light, easy to make usable power and available. > > The subby boxes all have too tall a R&P for > bike motors (the 4.4:1 isn't thaaat bad). I guess > running 10" wheels helps too. I'd go for normal 15" (27" tall?) rally sized tires in a clean-sheet project like this, far easier to dig up tires and package "real" uprights and brakes. Plus I loved the look of those crazy euro-cars you posted last week with the massively hogged out wheelwells. I think chain drive is the only way to fly with bike motors -- Denis Palatov has a funky quaife center diff setup with chain driven 4wd in his DP projects. If you've got nothing to do this weekend cruise over to www.dpcars.net and check out all of the build logs and historical pages -- no rally content but really engrossing and impressive stuff. > > If you want a mid engine and 4wd, you could put > the front drive underneith the motor trans.. would > raise your CG tho... > > That, or you can have a non center front diff, but > have equal length drive shafts from the CV on > (have a bearing the same distance from the > centerline as the diff).. I think that cures > torque steer doesn't it? > > Don't forget the new Skyline with the 4wd > transaxle in the back! > > Andrew M > Onterrible > 30ish Skyline Skyline Skyline, You mean the new $20k a pop transaxle that has no warranty if you use the launch control? 
If you use a two piece propshaft you could just angle the front section over a few degrees and run equal length front driveshafts, which makes a lot more sense, I shoulda though of that earlier .
Truth is, I'm not likely to build this sort of thing real soon. I'm fairly serious about building a Lotus 7ish (Locost/Haynes roadster/whatever) with my son over the next year or so. We scratch-built a go-kart this past summer and had a ball, I've got a spare 2l Zetec out of an SVT in the garage, a bunch of shocks and other bits and pieces and I think I can scavenge a type-9 tranny, uprights and a few other bits from the cast-off piles of the Xratty rally guys. (the 7 uses a lot of the stuff they toss away). I figure it'll be a fun trackday, possibly hillclimb, occasional streetcar that we can build for short money. I've been talking to John about the type-9 to Zetec connection and finding some front uprights. Pretty sure I could build three of these for the same money as rally prepping the Mini. And unless the economy makes a hard right turn into 'tons-o-profit' I can't see myself having the $10,000+ a year I need to run 5 tight-budget rally weekends... Book: http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Own-Sports-Car/dp/1844253910/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260647142&sr=8-2 Body bits: http://www.kineticvehicles.com/parts.html Forum: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/ I think John could sell a lot of mechanical solutions to builders of these things, Bilstein shock kits, Supra diff conversons, quickracks, decent brake kits etc. same technology as the rwd rally car stuff, just different applications -- not a lot of vendors in the game with his skillset. t Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec |
Andrew McNally Godlike Moderator Join Date: 01/08/2006 Posts: 1,217 |
Ted Andkilde Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I'm just spitballing -- I would "someday" like to > build an rs200 or Stratos clone as a fun car. I vote stratos! > I was thinking Duratec/EcoTec for this thing, > fairly light, easy to make usable power and > available. I don't know my new engines well enough.. but I think my wife has a EcoTec in here Astra. > I'd go for normal 15" (27" tall?) rally sized > tires in a clean-sheet project like this, far > easier to dig up tires and package "real" uprights > and brakes. Plus I loved the look of those crazy > euro-cars you posted last week with the massively > hogged out wheelwells. Life gets a LOT easier and cheaper once you get somewhere in the meat of the bell curve for things like rubber and wheels. I can see 15" stuff getting harder to find in the near future though (It just seems to be going that way). IF done right, the massively hogged out wheel well and flare look, looks the bizness. > I think chain drive is the only way to fly with > bike motors -- Denis Palatov has a funky quaife > center diff setup with chain driven 4wd in his DP > projects. If you've got nothing to do this weekend > cruise over to www.dpcars.net and check out all of > the build logs and historical pages -- no rally > content but really engrossing and impressive > stuff. I will have to check that out.. Personally, I'm against chain drive in a car, but we've been over this
> Skyline Skyline Skyline, You mean the new $20k a > pop transaxle that has no warranty if you use the > launch control? Sheering gear teeth are they? Nice! But seriously, if you're looking for a Front Engine N/S 4WDish car the old skyline trans is the way to do it. > If you use a two piece propshaft you could just > angle the front section over a few degrees and run > equal length front driveshafts, which makes a lot > more sense, I shoulda though of that earlier . I think youd find that you have to have the engine a lot more towards the side of the car so you can fit your seat in a mini.. so it might be moot
> Truth is, I'm not likely to build this sort of > thing real soon. I'm fairly serious about building > a Lotus 7ish (Locost/Haynes roadster/whatever) > with my son over the next year or so. We > scratch-built a go-kart this past summer and had a > ball, I've got a spare 2l Zetec out of an SVT in > the garage, a bunch of shocks and other bits and > pieces and I think I can scavenge a type-9 tranny, > uprights and a few other bits from the cast-off > piles of the Xratty rally guys. (the 7 uses a lot > of the stuff they toss away). I figure it'll be a > fun trackday, possibly hillclimb, occasional > streetcar that we can build for short money. I've > been talking to John about the type-9 to Zetec > connection and finding some front uprights. > > Pretty sure I could build three of these for the > same money as rally prepping the Mini. And unless > the economy makes a hard right turn into > 'tons-o-profit' I can't see myself having the > $10,000+ a year I need to run 5 tight-budget rally > weekends... If I had a garage and proper tools earlier, I would have probably gone some kind of locost route already. It just makes sense period. No rust to repair, no sourcing of anything difficult to find and or expensive... Hell, you don't even have to put a paint job on the thing. I don't see myself being able to afford (a time and money equation) more than 2 rallies a year ever.. at least at this point in my life. So with that being said, unless removable door bars are legal by the time I get a car built I'll have a hard time convincing myself I want that much cage in a car that needs it 2 weekends a year. It's fairly hard to swallow the difference in cage requirements when you look at some of the videos from various forms of motorsport in Europe. A lot of these guys are going 11/10ths with what approximates a swing set in comparison. > I think John could sell a lot of mechanical > solutions to builders of these things, Bilstein > shock kits, Supra diff conversons, quickracks, > decent brake kits etc. same technology as the rwd > rally car stuff, just different applications -- > not a lot of vendors in the game with his > skillset. I wonder how hard it would be to get a LoCost as rally "legal" that might make the thing more affordable! Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
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