And I swore I'd never touch acid again....

john vanlandingham Wrote:

> Well just moving the loom aside and squirting the
> Liquid N is pretty easy, stop making sense

> www.rallyrace.net/jvab
> CALL +1 206 431-9696
> Remember! Pacific Standard Time
> is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.


The loom!?? We threw that out already. Who doesn't make their own loom???

I am leaning towards LN though just because of the painting issue.

---

Gone fishing



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2009 04:46PM by david amor.

> THEN while they were stipping I could go watch
> some stripping
>
> "this is certainly not a game for flyweights or
> ping-pong players-all arguments to the contrary"
> -C.B.


Ah yes, that reminds me of my friend sweet Sasha (rest in peace) up in Portland Or. I remember bumping into him at the DMV. You could take a number and leave the building while you wait. He had it all figured out: he got his number, then went down the block to the Dancing Bare. It ended up taking three days.


Don't get me wrong, if I could I would have gotten my shell stripped (probly media blasted), kept it in a heated garage during the build, then a good paint job, but, maybe next time... gotta go get that lottery ticket

Hey David

Don't know if there is anyone your way who offers the service but in Windsor there's a guy who does smaller parts (doors, fenders etc), caustic dip to strip, followed by neutralizing and full-on e-coat. Stuff comes out looking great and gets you nice deep in the crevices rust protection. Be nice if someone had a tank big enough to do full bodyshells. A bunch of my customers have the equipment but would probably get a little cranky if I ran some "furrin" POS through their lines

t

---

Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec

Ted Andkilde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey David
>
> Don't know if there is anyone your way who offers
> the service but in Windsor there's a guy who does
> smaller parts (doors, fenders etc), caustic dip to
> strip, followed by neutralizing and full-on
> e-coat. Stuff comes out looking great and gets you
> nice deep in the crevices rust protection. Be nice
> if someone had a tank big enough to do full
> bodyshells. A bunch of my customers have the
> equipment but would probably get a little cranky
> if I ran some "furrin" POS through their lines
>
> t
>
>
>
> Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly
> creative man -- Sir Alec


The place I talked to in Brampton dips, neutrilizes then applies a water based coating only. They said they do not do any kind of painting whatsoever. I thought I could save time by dipping but now as someone mentioned the painting will be such a huge project and I don't have a booth to do it in. Maybe I should just do the LN. I still need to borrow buy or make a rotisserie as well.

---

Gone fishing

I've seen a serviceable rotisserie constructed out of two Princess Auto engine stands and a couple of 4x4 fence-posts, elegantly affixed to the fingers on the engine stands with big-ass exhaust u-bolts. The only issue it had was it was a little 'tippy', so a couple of long 2x4s were c-clamped to the bottom of the stands as ghetto outriggers.

t

---

Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec

No rust experience but...

I’ve done the dry-ice, wire wheel on the grinder and torch way....AND….most recently I’ve done the acid dipping way.

Which one is better? It depends…..

Acid dipping a shell in So Cal costs about $1900.

If you’re (or the shop you’re paying) time is worth $40 per hour, you’re losing money if it takes longer than 47.5 hours to clean the shell manually. The cheaper your time is, the longer the available hours to clean it manually.

Does the acid eat everything? It depends….

Straight caustic soda won’t even take the paint off a newer car (according to the acid dipper). A local rally/roadrace guy had a Ford Escort dipped in a weak mix and it hardly took the paint off!!

I had my 2008 Evo X dipped, at a different place than above, and there’s virtually no seam sealer or glue of any kind left!

The car was dipped in caustic soda that was heated to 220 degrees. They let is sit for 24-36 hours in the bath, then pulled it out and sprayed it off. Repeated until clean….about 14 days.

In fact, I forgot to mention that the roof was aluminum to the acid dipping place and when I went to pick the car up, it was completely gone! The caustic soda they used had “additives” and the aluminum roof dissolved like Alka-Seltzer in water!

We’ve started the seam welding and there is zero prep required. All of the seams are clean and easy to weld. I’ll never clean a chassis again by hand…unless it costs me $5 per hour!



Andrew




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2009 10:10PM by urr.

So what'd you pay on that Andrew? Was that the $1900 number?
Did it remove the paint too? Not that I can afford the acid dipping and I've got someone else paying for the Liquid Nitrogen if I can ever get Airgas to actually give me a quote or firm confirmation that they'll sell it to me, and stop telling me they'll call me back later or tomorrow.

---

Grant Hughes

urr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We’ve started the seam welding it there is zero
> prep required. All of the seams are clean and
> easy to weld. I’ll never clean a chassis again by
> hand…unless it costs me $5 per hour!

I think one part that is often over looked in general is the cost of consumables (discs, wheels, paper, electricity).

That stuff can add up fairly quickly.

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So what'd you pay on that Andrew? Was that the
> $1900 number?
> Did it remove the paint too? Not that I can
> afford the acid dipping and I've got someone else
> paying for the Liquid Nitrogen if I can ever get
> Airgas to actually give me a quote or firm
> confirmation that they'll sell it to me, and stop
> telling me they'll call me back later or
> tomorrow.

Sometimes, if you feel that you're getting blown off or the person just can't follow up, showing up in person will get it done.

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

I got a $100 off since my $950 roof skin dissappeared...so $1800. I'm sure there are cheaper places in other parts of the country.

My understanding is that you can find acid dipping places in areas that have a heavy aerospace roots.

urr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No rust experience but...
>
> I’ve done the dry-ice, wire wheel on the grinder
> and torch way....AND….most recently I’ve done the
> acid dipping way.
>
> Which one is better? It depends…..
>
> Acid dipping a shell in So Cal costs about $1900.
>
> If you’re (or the shop you’re paying) time is
> worth $40 per hour, you’re losing money if it
> takes longer than 47.5 hours to clean the shell
> manually. The cheaper your time is, the longer
> the available hours to clean it manually.
>
> Does the acid eat everything? It depends….
>
> Straight caustic soda won’t even take the paint
> off a newer car (according to the acid dipper). A
> local rally/roadrace guy had a Ford Escort dipped
> in a weak mix and it hardly took the paint off!!
>
>
> I had my 2008 Evo X dipped, at a different place
> than above, and there’s virtually no seam sealer
> or glue of any kind left!
>
> The car was dipped in caustic soda that was heated
> to 220 degrees. They let is sit for 24-36 hours
> in the bath, then pulled it out and sprayed it
> off. Repeated until clean….about 14 days.
>
> In fact, I forgot to mention that the roof was
> aluminum to the acid dipping place and when I went
> to pick the car up, it was completely gone! The
> caustic soda they used had “additives” and the
> aluminum roof dissolved like Alka-Seltzer in
> water!
>
> We’ve started the seam welding it there is zero
> prep required. All of the seams are clean and
> easy to weld. I’ll never clean a chassis again by
> hand…unless it costs me $5 per hour!
>
>
>
> Andrew
>

Amazing resistance to the simple liquid Nitrogen.
Utterly, and unfathomably amazing resistance.

And don't suggest the fucking dry ice shit is the same....it isn't by a mile.

I guess some people like to throw away thousands for fun.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Amazing resistance to the simple liquid Nitrogen.
> Utterly, and unfathomably amazing resistance.
>
> And don't suggest the fucking dry ice shit is the
> same....it isn't by a mile.
>
> I guess some people like to throw away thousands
> for fun.
>
>
>
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.rallyrace.net/jvab
> CALL +1 206 431-9696
> Remember! Pacific Standard Time
> is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I looked into the LN. I went as far as buying small dewar's off ebay. Spoke with Airgas and the only way they would give me LN was if I rented a huge ass dewar from them...and then I'd need to fab up a mechanism to get it out of the dewar, without burning off a finger or two! I just seemed like a pain in the ass to me! If you have the equipement already, I'm sure it's a great alternative.

It's a race car...throwing away thousands for fun is what it's all about!!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2009 07:37PM by urr.

"Caustic soda" makes me think it's nothing more than good old lye, which will definitely dissolve aluminum all by itself, especially at 200+ degrees. It's the direct opposite of acid.

I've seen bearings destroyed when in a spray cleaning tank (think Dishwasher From Hell) for only eight minutes. We use some fancy aluminum-safe chemical from Zep now.

And, yeah some paints it won't even touch, but it will take surface rust off like nobody's business.

I missed out on the part where when the lye solution gets changed, they dump 5 gallons of 95% sulfuric acid into the (200 gallon) tank. It's supposed to be quite *energetic*...

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So what'd you pay on that Andrew? Was that the
> $1900 number?
> Did it remove the paint too? Not that I can
> afford the acid dipping and I've got someone else
> paying for the Liquid Nitrogen if I can ever get
> Airgas to actually give me a quote or firm
> confirmation that they'll sell it to me, and stop
> telling me they'll call me back later or
> tomorrow.
>
>
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

Yeah, go in person, put on your best friendly guy face and make friends with the guy in charge at your airgas. I think they aren't really supposed to let those liquid N2 bottles just go out the door, usually they deliver them, They are kinda dangerous, you could freeze your foot right off. Also, I think its used for crime, like safecracking, so you have to be pretty straight up about what you are doing.

urr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Amazing resistance to the simple liquid
> Nitrogen.
> > Utterly, and unfathomably amazing
> resistance.
> >
> > And don't suggest the fucking dry ice shit is
> the
> > same....it isn't by a mile.
> >
> > I guess some people like to throw away
> thousands
> > for fun.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > John Vanlandingham
> > Sleezattle, WA, USA
> >
> > Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
> >
> > www.rallyrace.net/jvab
> > CALL +1 206 431-9696
> > Remember! Pacific Standard Time
> > is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
>
> I looked into the LN. I went as far as buying
> small dewar's off ebay. Spoke with Airgas and the
> only way they would give me LN was if I rented a
> huge ass dewar from them...

If you'd read the 10 years of posts, you'd see i say "Talk to where you buy your welding supplies"...they'll suggest opening an account backed up with a credit card. You use the stuff and call, they pick up. No charge to me anyway.



and then I'd need to
> fab up a mechanism to get it out of the dewar,

Piece of their extra hose to a piece of 1/2 waterpipe smashed flat on one end well thats 2 minutes, then some sorta insulated handle....
Didn't seem too rough when I did it...


> without burning off a finger or two!
5 cars so far and I have all mine.



I just
> seemed like a pain in the ass to me!

And stripping the car, hauling it around, waiting a week or more, paying a couple of thousand dollars is convenient?

OOOOooooooooooooOOOOHH.


If you have
> the equipement already, I'm sure it's a great
> alternative.

If you have read the last 10 years, then you see I lend the thing out.
>
> It's a race car...throwing away thousands for fun
> is what it's all about!!

For fun maybe, for nothing, well..........

I was trying my damnedest to be as polite as possible.

>
>
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Dec 17, 2009 by urr.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.