Plumbing Brake Lines

I ran the single line in my car, with a prop valve next to the shifter. I also ran the -6 steel lines for fuel, did them all in a day, and they look great.

AN -3 bulkhead fittings, steel 3/16 brake line. the rear T is outside of the car, and the front T is in the engine compartment.
Do purchase a nice double flairing tool, and make sure your stock subie fittings are not bubble flaired. Go to a napa or carquest and get some new fitting ends, they sell bulk brake line for $1 a foot or so. Do an AN bulkhead fitting at each corner, then standard -3 AN brake hose ends are a snap. Buy some AN-3 tube ends and tube sleeves, put them on the tube and flare to standard auto angle, it will seal just fine. for anything bigger than -3 you need an AN 37 Degree flare tool.

Good luck

A guy who has never done this before might not have noticed the important detail about automotive brake line flares being 45 degrees and A/N flares being 37 degrees.

If said guy hasn't figured this out yet, he knows now...


-Dave

This is on Goodridge PTFE lines:
Stainless Braided PTFE Hose – First recordable data at 0.010% (0.0002932cc/ft) @ 4000 PSI

Sorry, here's the source.
http://bin.motorarte.com/marcas/goodridge/Goodridge_TechReport.pdf

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Grant Hughes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2010 05:54PM by NoCoast.

I had a hill hold in my impreza. just went to the u pull it and took a drivers front hard line from a non-hill hold car and it went right in. If you can get metric replacement lines it was only 18-24" long if that; straight down off the MC then up and around to the mount.

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-KTurner
Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is on Goodridge PTFE lines:
> Stainless Braided PTFE Hose – First recordable
> data at 0.010% (0.0002932cc/ft) @ 4000 PSI
>
> Sorry, here's the source.
>
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Feb 23, 2010 by
> NoCoast.

That article is from an unknown source for sales purposes of Goodridge brakes hoses, no sizes are given, nor conditions of the test. That being said, here at work we use Goodridge hoses on all brake kits we sell, so being a ISO and TS certified we have to test all that crap. I can get data from the QA engineer but of the top of my head I know that the hoses dont take 4000PSI, not even close. As a matter of fact, they start leaking at the fittings just under 2000psi.

Independently of what it says, I work with these things everyday, the difference is not just in feel, you can actually see them move. Plus braided is more expenssive, so its a double wammy.

Stainless steel polished hardlies with stainless AN fittings and -2 hoses to the calipers. Porn!

Signor Paulo,

Why are we down to -2 now?

I THINK I'm with you on the hardlines although I cannot FEEL any difference whatsoever beetween hardlines and braided on a car with a single master with no booster. Maybe it'll be more apparent on this next car which will have proper dual masters.

Is there a reason you can't say where you work BTW? (not being confrontational, just curious since you have some serious brake knowlege)

---

Gone fishing

Cosworth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have never understood the "rip everything
> out"
> > and then re-do 85% the same as it just was
> > mentality.
>
> Thats hoping that they're not going with the loony
> idea of putting -3 braided or even worse -4. But
> the reason to rip it all out is to maybe re-route
> them inside the car cabin.

Always wonder why circle track catalogs are full of -4 stuff....
But you know that last time i bought an ex-works Ford sierra Cosworth chassi number MS9000007 it was -3 hard lines and -3 flexie lines to the calipers.
What's changed about hydraulics that -2 is the new thing?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Well the -2 thing is because it has less volume. Less volume = less fluid to compress yadda yadda yadda. Its really not a big difference unless you're doing extenssive datalogging like say... in ALMS or even Grand Am.

The circle track guys are most "bubba" you'll ever find. I mean some of those idiots run 2 different compound pads on the front corners with a more agreesive pad in the left. Some even go as far as having smaller pistons on the right front to help the car turn. Stupid *headshaking* But even though they're a bunch of knuckle heads I never seen one of those cars with -4 besides on the oil or fuel lines.

Senhor Amor, I'm an engineer and work in the motorsport scene, and deal with brake stuff every single day.

Ok I'm gonna do hardline in the current car except from the wheel wells to caliper and maybe where the lines attach to the hydro handbrake.
I've asked this before but I need to be sure since I can't be trying out a bunch of MC's till I get it right. The brakes I'm using use 4 (need to confirm for 100% certainty) 40.6mm pistons front and 2 38.1mm pistons rear. I need to know what size masters and pedal box ratio is optimum. I'll likely use Wilwood stuff since it's commonly available and "good enough"

---

Gone fishing

Ok I can tell you exactly torque values and bias but first I need to know the diameter of the discs and the swept area (radial depth) of the pads. Or just tell me what what calipers they are and I'll figure out what pads it takes.

Are you going to run a floor mount pedal box, underdash, or remote mount?

-PF

If you are replumbing the subaru, the hard lines will be 3/16ths the flares on the master are 45 inverted. The tube nuts are easy to find on the Ebay they are M10x1.
Im finding using stainless 3/16 line is more difficult to work with then the steel stuff so you might want to just rock the stuff from Napa and cut off one end when you have to. THe rest of the bulkheads etc I would use would be 3an Steel stuff tube nuts, and sleeves.

This just seems like a good place for this:
http://nocoastmotorsports.net/Build/Resources/designing_4_pot_brakes.pdf

I don't doubt that in reality there is some pressure loss. Just as Dave Anton said over on specialstage, it's not a ton and -3 braided lines are super easy to build, especially if they get the thing from summit that spreads the braids. I think I did all of the brake lines in my car in around 2 hours at most. It will cost probably double to do so.
In a Subaru, stick to reusing stock lines. Already inside the car!
Why are you not plumbing in a hydraulic handbrake Daniel? They're cheap to buy or can be fabricated pretty easily.

---

Grant Hughes

If you want to save some money you can buy inverted flare adapters for the Master and convert it to AN then all your flares will be AN so you only will need a single tool.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Why are you not plumbing in a hydraulic handbrake
> Daniel? They're cheap to buy or can be fabricated
> pretty easily.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

I figured that when people say that I've overbuilt my first car, I can say "What! I don't even have a hydro handbrake!"



I'm not in a hurry because it's an extra $100 or more that can wait for later. I've got a 5spd and probably 120hp. The handbrake locks all four wheels and I don't really have the power to pull out of a slide anyhow...

EDIT - WTF! I read that WRONG...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2010 12:16PM by Daniel Buehler.