So there are lots of threads on this, but none of them spell out the basics to someone like me who has never done this.

I'd like to redo all of the lines in my car. The old ones are junk. I've read about all the (fancy) AN fittings and braided lines, but I'm trying to keep it simple.

Id like to run hardlines from the booster to the wheelwells.
I'm not running a hydraulic handbrake.
I have a brand new set and a spare set of braided brake lines for OEM subarus and I'd like to be able to use them.
I'm also planing to use an OEM booster.
I think this illustrates everything I need:



I will need to pruchase all of the tools as well, so any suggestions would be great. I've heard that this is not a place to skimp on tool quality.

The car I co-drive for has hardlines that could be bent by hand... That's not a concern to me but, they are also more corrosion resistant than 'standard' hard lines. My Driver can no longer remember what brand of lines they were, but he said they are holding up far better than the last lines he ran. Any idea what they might be?

I'm totally new to this and have no idea about the different threads and fitting sizes. I've seen the AN-3 lines and the NPT fittings, but I'm not sure what the benefit is of one style over the other. I also don't know what style of fitting I'll need to match up with the OEM style lines and the OEM brake booster.

Car is a Subaru.

As for the bulkhead fittings, I was figuring I'd use 90degree fittings at the wheelwells and the firewall.

Thanks for any help, suggestions, oppinions, or links you can provide!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2010 09:04AM by Daniel Buehler.

Oops!

I forgot that I'd like to use an adjustable proportioning valve as well...

... original post edited



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2010 09:06AM by Daniel Buehler.

did you toss all the OEM lines?

Use as much of them as you possibly can.

Then are cleaner, and tighter fitting can you will ever be able to do.

It honestly is a bit of an art, and takes practice to make the lines.



it's one of those jobs that you start out saying, "man i'm gonna make these things so nice, and fitting well" then you get all done and they are ugly!

---

Chris

+ 1 on keeping as much of the original lines as possible.

I removed almost all of them on my laser, tried my best to do some nice looking new ones, but after a few days I called a friend and ended up getting the original lines from his part car.

---

Francois

There IS a gernerally good priciple that save money, saves time and works good: add and mod what you need to.

I have never understood the "rip everything out" and then re-do 85% the same as it just was mentality.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
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> I have never understood the "rip everything out"
> and then re-do 85% the same as it just was
> mentality.

Thats hoping that they're not going with the loony idea of putting -3 braided or even worse -4. But the reason to rip it all out is to maybe re-route them inside the car cabin.

I did not throw away a single thing. I still have all the original parts.

I was concerned with the lines to the front calipers as they had been abused when the rubber lines were changed at one point in time before I purchased the car. They (the hard lines) had visable twisting and corrosion as well as the nuts were quite rounded before I got to them - flare nut wrenches were not used before I got to them.

I'm changing the entire caliper setup to a mixmatched set of calipers from two other models of subarus (early usdm WRX in the rear and '02 RS up front). I know how to play with the brake pads to achive a balace that I like using those calipers from my experience with another of my toys. But I don't want to steal that system away from that other car. So, I'll be left with an OEM proportioning valve that was meant for the smallest calipers that were sold on an impreza (13" wheels clear them) and Drums in the rear. I'm not sure how that would work.

Also, and I'll have to confirm that it was this way on this car, but I thought that the lines were setup with the 'x' patern distribution.

Another issue is that this car came with the hill holder assist which I will not put back into the car.

I have sil bars on this cage and a lateral tube between the bases of my main hoop 'x'. I also have the front strut towers tied in to the cage and they are all in the way of the OEM lines as they run across the firewall, not to mention inside the cabin under the dash where the OEM lines run at the co-driver's feet and across the rocker, up the rear seat area.

I understand the idea of not fixing things until they are broken. But, I'm learning the long way (and the fun way - for me at least) how when you make a small change in one system... it ripples.

All in all, I'm confident, but I will confirm, that altering the OEM system will take just as much time/effort as starting fresh.

As for bending the tubing, I was raised by a Plumber (coolest Grandfather ever!). I've got a fairly good understanding of stretch ratios and the difference between the length of tubing before and after you bend it.

I do fully accept that I know very little in this area though. If you all still think it makes more sense to stick with th OEM system, let me know. If not, I'm not going to cry over spilled milk and worry about the extra time I'm spending now because of descisions I made a year ago.

I'm just plugging on, building away...

Yeah, I was thinking of a single line run from the firewall, down the transmission tunnel through the rear seat area and "T'd" off between the rear wheel arches. Nothing to step on (unless the car is on it's side).

Cosworth Wrote:
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> Thats hoping that they're not going with the loony
> idea of putting -3 braided or even worse -4.

You know there's a Open car that's running in national class placing as high as 3rd overall in Rally America that's running all -3 braided. I still have yet to see real evidence that there is any effect.

Subaru brake lines are already inside the car. You could always cut the stock lines back a few inches, do a new flared fitting on them, then use a longer piece of braided lines if it's just a problem in the wheel wells. Or you could grab a new set of stock stuff from a junkyard car that are in good shape.

---

Grant Hughes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2010 03:34PM by NoCoast.

I know where you are coming from.

My car had all the same junk, Hil holder included.

Up until July of this year, i had the hil-holder in my car, just unhooked it so that it didn't do anything (disconnect the cable).


The brake set-up you are going to use is not oddball at all.

WRX rear calipers are the same brakes as any other rear disc impreza or legacy. Same as 2.5rs etc.

The fronts....they use the same calipers, but different brackets to work with the smaller rotors.



I have the "stock" Subaru Prop valve sitting in my garage if you want to use it. I used it on my car and it worked just fine...assuming i can find it!


Getting the OEM lines to clear the cage sill bars is much easier than you think.


If the "tube nuts" on your OEM lines are rounded off a bit and seen better days. Then chop off the flare, slide off the old nut, Slide on a new one, and reflare the end.





However.. if you decide to make lines...i have had good luck just going to the AutoParts store and buying 3/16" hard line by the 25 foot roll.

I try to reuse as many of the OEM tube nuts as you can, if they are in good shape, chop the line and reuse it.

PROPER metric tube nuts are very difficult to find in this area. Same with all metric fittings, Metric t-fittings for exampe are almost impossible to find.

The line doesn't rust, it bents fairly easily, is cheap, and works.

---

Chris

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You know there's a Open car that's running in
> national class placing as high as 3rd overall in
> Rally America that's running all -3 braided. I
> still have yet to see real evidence that there is
> any effect.

Common dude you wanna talk about this again ...So,running in 3rd eh? But the fact that they have a much more inconsistent pedal than if it was on hardlines is probably something they dont know...

The effect is that a braided line doesnt have a linear expansion rate with pressure (obviously) and that expansion depending on the length of the line can actually make you run out of pedal travel on smaller master cylinders due to fluid volume differences. So to combat that, they tend to run a much bigger master and end up losing out on modulation and brake torque that a smaller master would provide.

Besides that, all of the teams in professional racing run hardlines and -2 from chassis to caliper and they certainly know what they're doing.

I'm sure we could get a braided hose manufacturer gives us the data card where it shows the displacement increase/foot of hose at different pressures. I've seen it before and in certain applications it more than doubles.

This sounds like a test for myth busters!!! I'll agree that in theory this is true. I'll also say that there has been observational evidence where people felt that they could feel the difference. Then again, the Tornado or whatever the vortex tube thing is is still on the market. But, if you don't mind bending and flaring the lines (really quite easy in the big picture of building your own rally car) than you really have no reason to do all braided lines though regardless.

In rally in the US, there are no professional drivers. If my car with all braided lines loses any braking ability I don't notice it, but I'm nowhere near the capabilities of the car. I may redo them in hard lines during this current rebuild since I have a ton of hard line and fittings already.

---

Grant Hughes

I'll have to take a drive and get my lines off the rafters... I can certainly see how it would be easier to use t6he old ones.

Chris, so you had the hill holder plumbed in? Just mechanically unhooked? If I remember correctly, it was just another cable from the clutch fork...

Yes sir...all plumbed in, just no cable attached. Leave the spring on it, but that's it.

---

Chris

The tornado is on the market because people are stupid.

Don't be stupid.

Honda boy is right.

-D