BMW 318i

I can host them if you send them to me. andrew at unc dot edu

Cosworth Wrote:
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> Now the question is: Would it be faster than a
> moderately soupped up Golf on anything other than
> tarmac?

Hard to know, I think it will come down to what sort of weight you can hit with a fully built car, and maybe even more importantly, how good you can get the weight balance.

I think the thing you can't argue with is the fun factor that RWD has...and if sustainable rally and growing car counts is what what we're all chasing after, more smiles/mile should make competitors more liekly to come back for a 2nd and 3rd race, etc.

Dave

Andrew_Frick Wrote:
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> I can host them if you send them to me. andrew at
> unc dot edu


sent

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One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

Josh Wimpey Wrote:
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> Andrew_Frick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I can host them if you send them to me.
> andrew at
> > unc dot edu
>
>
> sent
>
> __________________________________________________
> __________-
>
>
>
>
>
>

Got it and I created a new thread since there were so many pictures and none of them had anything to do with a BMW

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
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> If you were a person who liked driving, was good
> at driving, finishing top 5 consistently,
> podiuming (yes, I made that up, lol) and was
> driving quick enough to win and have your fun, why
> spend 2k on a gear set, when you could spend it on
> tires, or gas, or an entry and hotel?
>
> When you get the driving skill level where you
> dont need as much prep to win, you can use the
> money you're not spending on upgrades, on
> consumables and entrys/event costs.

It's a point - but I think that it - quite a bit of the way - isn't a very realistic or common case. It makes sense in writing - it's the sensible thing, and blablabla....

But as John tries to point out: nothing is "needed" as such. After all very few get paid to do this. Very few need to advance two to five places in the standings to pay their mortgage or get the guy how kidnapped the family to release them.

Why is ANY amateur in ANY sort of racing? Simple answer: To compete, have fun, and ultimately become better, faster, etc. So nobody will ever be content with a shitbox just because they're winning. There's always someone to compete and measure against, or some goal to have MORE fun.

At some point beating the crap out of some lame shitbox no matter how many 1st places it gives a guy, becomes boring (this is a very constructed scenario, 'cause the pros will almost ALWAYS be going faster - and/or at least there is only ONE guy who can be dominating - otherwise he wouldn't be dominating - so what about the rest of the guys also in shitboxes (maybe warmer shitboxes but with less skill) that will be trying to beat the guy that is finishing first?).
That is the point where one of two things happen:

1. The guy goes to buy upgrade parts. a) for the guys finishing just below 1st place, to try to compensate for lack of skill. b) for the ONE guy finishing first: Because it's just more fun to have the proper bit of kit - "it feels more like the real cool d00ds that gets paid to drive". For the guys in category a), the reason for b) most often also applies too.

2. The guy quits rallying because it's no fun anymore, and he can't afford to make it "funner" by buying stuff to: a) for the guys finishing below 1st, have MORE fun and/or try to beat the number 1 guy. b) to have more fun on his own by driving a car closer to "the real thing".

Basically: stop trying to make sense of it! :-).
Rallying isn't about sense. Sure we can try to convince the wife that pouring tons of money into some (more or less) old POS will make us better drivers and thus ultimately we're protecting the family by increasing the chances of the kids surviving the school run - but basically that's crap.
It's NOT about "need" - it's about "WANT!" (because it's fun, cool, etc.).

So when John's pushing certain RWD turbo platforms it's because:
1. In the beginning you'll be able to be fairly competitive at a VERY low price.
2. When it all really catches fire and you're bitten by the "I-want-it"-bug, you can - again - upgrade AND have more fun AND be HUGELY more competitive - AND that at a very low price.

Some people take a long time to progress from phase 1 to 2, some do within a year, but in my experience it's VERY rare for someone to NOT progress, and NOBODY EVER doesn't want to have fun and get the most of it at any of the phases.
So it makes sense to get a platform that will meet all of these criteria. A platform that is economical, not a dead end, etc. ... all the while with potential to be reliable in all phases, thus adding even more to the fun.

With certain other platforms you are - absolutely speaking - facing a relatively steep cost just to be a bit fast and have more fun in phase 1, and a huuuge cost (and maybe even that huuuge cost all at once if you're not going to pay even more extra to do upgrades over time) to do the same in phase 2.

So while you can think up this mythical guy who's the rallying version of the ever so valiant knight in shining amour, he is just that: a myth... nobody being able to attain that level of skill will ever be satisfied with a shitbox no matter how many podium finishes it brings him. Since he has that level of skill, he will be a competitive sorta person (since that is one trait that is required to acquire said level of skill), thus as long as there is something cooler, faster, funner, whatever out there, he'll be WANTING it, to try it out it, see what he can do with it, to progress himself, etc.

Wow - long post - longer than some of JVL's :-). Hope it makes sense...

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Brgrds
Brian

That makes sense, but it comes down to who you are.

I don't get "I want it" syndrome. So for me, upgrading stuff like that, even if I'm not winning is kind of a moot point, when I could be buying tires or gas. Sure, it may be fun to have a close ratio box. But your car wont RUN without gas. Sure, it may be fun to rally. But you wont START the rally without paying the entry fee.

I'm 21, in college, and know I have a budget. So I look at what I need to do the rally, not just "make my car more fun." Its too expensive to try to just make the car fun, because you're going to be spending so much on the car, you won't have anything left over for entries, tires, and gas.



Then again, this could all be because I am not a car person, I hate cars, and I just like driving. I can have fun driving ANYTHING, as long as it has wheels. RWD/FWD/AWD doesn't matter, I can have fun in it. I never have understood the "Oh, I just bought this new car, what should I do to it?" series of thinking.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

I'll go out on a limb here...

I get what you're saying, and I'm quite certain that it's true... there are those types of people in racing too... but those guys will rarely - if ever - make it to the top of the standings.
They're (which also means: you) simply not competitive enough to: a) aquire the skills. b) drive hard enough to make a shitbox finish that well.

That type of guy will be the one doing what we danes call "hygger sig" - which is kinda hard to translate, but means something along the lines of "having fun, enjoying themselves while not being too serious".
But he'll rarely if ever be at the top - and thus he's not the kinda guy you we're referring to, to begin with.

We have those mellow guys... I'm one of 'em to some extent - but I'm also constantly trying to expand the driving experience and my skills, by improving the car and making it more capable.
As anybody I'm limited by funds, thus I have to do what I can find the dough for - but it doesn't mean that I would ever be satisfied for more than say... 6 months :-).

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Brgrds
Brian





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2010 05:16PM by wildert.

Fair enough.

I was just going to leave it as that, but I want to add this as well.


What I was trying to convey was that if you are TRYING to be competitive, you don't NEED to be always upgrading the car. I think it was Gene who told me that even if your car is the lightest one out there, or the best geared, if you botch a succession of corners, or go off once, there goes your advantage.


My theory is upgrade when you NEED to, not just because you can. So your learning and have a mildish car, great, keep driving it until it WONT go faster. Cody Crane is a great example of this. He is crazy fast, but his car isnt that amazing. There is no trickery there, it's driver skill from spending on entries, in his case, haha. I'm not sure he's ever run on new tires.

I really believe that by working on getting seat time and experience first, then it will be a much bigger benefit when you upgrade. I'm actually kind of annoyed at my build because of that, as I wont be able to gauge progress, as I will have to "drive up" to the level of prep my car has- I have no gauge of performance on stock brakes, the stock suspension setup, the stock engine (however, the reason I upgraded the engine was from daily driving a corolla).

To me, its like anything else. The fastest football player is shit at sprints in track until he learns the form. Photographers with lower level gear taking amazing pictures because they know how to use the gear the its fullest extend, vs the amateur with pro level gear. Just because something is built more, does not mean it will perform better.

The driver still has to drive. And, the faster the car CAN go, means that unless the driver is used to topping out the prior level, s/he may be a bit scared to go to the max, as they are not used to anything close to it.



So, my point wasn't so much that I don't understand upgrading, I don't understand upgrading to upgrade, like its a thing of status. No one should give a damn what is under the body of your car, they should care how you use it.

Does that make sense?

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2010 06:17PM by Dazed_Driver.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
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> I'm 21, in college, and know I have a budget. So I
> look at what I need to do the rally, not just
> "make my car more fun."

Liar. You're not 21 yet.

Maybe it's time to finish the car and start spending money on entry fees, tires, and gas instead of spending money on expensive cameras and mountain bikes. I'd like to see a cost breakout there.

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Grant Hughes

Lol I havent bought a bike in almost 3 years, and the camera was an early 21/investment in my future gift from my family.

And excuse me, I have 4 days until I'm 21, haha

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.