BMW 318i

'95 is the break year for OBD-II

Tim Taylor Wrote:
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> '95 is the break year for OBD-II

Am I right in being wary of it?
When did they start with the transponder thing in the key and windows that talk to the engine ECU and a toilet paper low rev override?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2010 12:35PM by john vanlandingham.

Here's an off-question, but something that's very relevant for me JUST IN CASE I get some newish car that came stock with airbags.
In Utah, if a car is equipped with airbags from the factory, they have to have them to pass the annual safety check. Currenlty, the Focus remains registered in MN, where that's not a problem.
Now, the question. When they plug in the emissions thing that talks to the ECU or OBD sensors or something, does that thing also pull up airbag info? Because if not, it'd be no problem to just put black tape behind the red air-bags light behind the instrument cluster and, if necessary, put a stealthily disconnected airbag onto an original steering wheel just for the test.
The UT DOT has cracked down hard on people paying off safety/emissions people, so that really is a tough one.

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Ben Hetland
1973 Volvo 142 project car (with some cone-smashing on dirt in it's future, however)

"No. Rally Racing is a back alley sport filled with jackals, headhunters and thugs!"
-Pops Racer (Speed Racer movie)

www.utahrallygroup.com

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tim Taylor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > '95 is the break year for OBD-II
>
> Am I right in being wary of it?
> When did they start with the transponder thing in
> the key and windows that talk to the engine ECO
> and a toilet paper low rev override?

The biggest problem with the OBD2 sheet is that a lot of states use the presence or absence of "check engine" lights and stored codes and "ready" status to FAIL you for emission non-compliance. Never mind if your car with a wonky heater wire on the THIRD O2 sensor is popping the code or your stand-alone engine management will pass a sniff test. Light on? Not ready! NO STICKER FOR YOU! And you're in the computer database as a FAIL.

New Hampshire went this way so they didn't lose out on some Federal $$$ on highways because of non-compliance with the Clean Air Act. Cheaper to force inspection stations to lease a computer with a code reader than to put in sniffer stations...

So 95+ cars are no good if you actually want to use them on the street with other than stock ECU in the state they're registered in...unless you know a clicky clacky guy who can program the ECU around the OBD stuff, which you can with some Subarats and others.

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

I honestly would not fear an OBD-II car at all. Anything you would think of building a rally car out (and a lot of stuff you wouldn't) has strong enough aftermarket support that a computer reflash, chip, piggyback or standalone is all you need to fool anything that might get you in trouble including the airbag. Most people are going to develope and tune their engines to some degree and with OBD-II I don't think it would be any easier/harder with a compentent tuner.

On a side note, if everything is stock and you are missing the airbags most cars use the industry standard 2.2 ohms (sometimes 3) for the airbag circuit, so plug a resistor in where the airbag would and you're a-okay

---

TV and Beer! What could be better?
http://weregonnahaveatvparty.blogspot.com/

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tim Taylor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > '95 is the break year for OBD-II
>
> Am I right in being wary of it?
> When did they start with the transponder thing in
> the key and windows that talk to the engine ECU
> and a toilet paper low rev override?
>
>
>
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.rallyrace.net/jvab
> CALL +1 206 431-9696
> Remember! Pacific Standard Time
> is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Apr 23, 2010 by john
> vanlandingham.


That's a very good point I hadn't considered. OBD-2 can be a great thing because there is so much good info that you can get out of the stock ecu... Much Much more than a OBD-1 car.

But on the other hand, you could have key issues, theft prevention B.S. that will keep the car from starting, and that Can-Bus thing you're talking about where the windows,taillights,door locks, the freakin turn signals and god knows what else all talk to each other over a wireless network and each has an ID and it all has to mojo together or shit is fucked. I don't know when BMW started with that ish... But yeah I'd want to stay away from that.

Plus a lot of OBD-2 cars won't work with a piggyback ecu, they'll re-learn. The OBD-2 has the ability to Re-Learn that the OBD-1 cars don't have.

Plus the OBD-2 cars you have an internal battery in the ECU that remembers the parameters with the battery disconnected for a hell of a lot longer than a obd-1 car does. OBD-1 forgets after a minute or two, obd-2 takes hours. So if you've got some funky problem on stage, you could disconnect the battery for a minute or two on a OBD-1 car and it might run again, you won't get so lucky with obd-2.

That's the thing with rally is you gotta be rock solid reliable more than all out ragged edge fast. You can be the fastest all weekend, but if you don't finish what good was it to be the fastest, you still lose.

So theres a good point to consider, are you tech savy enough to run a obd-2 car. Otheriwse you'll want to look for a 95 328i.

---

Michael LeCompte



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2010 01:11PM by pikespeakgtx.

1fastben Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's an off-question, but something that's very
> relevant for me JUST IN CASE I get some newish car
> that came stock with airbags.
> In Utah, if a car is equipped with airbags from
> the factory, they have to have them to pass the
> annual safety check.

They have to "Have" them or they have to have them FUNCTIONAL?

A scan tool test will show either all sorts of error codes from the airbag module (computer) or it will fail to communicate.

BTW - Every time a customer buys a Euro car on auction from Michigan, somebody disabled the check engine light, airbag light, etc. On a BMW this means breaking surface-mount LEDs from the cluster. Clusters can't be swapped vehicle to vehicle, so this means a new one.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Look for a 95 328i? What am I saying?

You'd never find one... The 328 started in 1996.

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Michael LeCompte

Get something like this:
http://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/1691928864.html
1995 BMW 318ti for sale. Has a blown head gasket. I have decided not to repair it. This car is as is. Asking $500.00 cash only please.

Or
http://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/1672304343.html
1995 bmw 318 ti - $1500 (downtown)

They average 1000-1500 usually around the Denver area. Dave Kern is building one so we're learning a lot of things and a ton of stuff being developed. Supra diff swap, JVAB suspenders, turreted rear towers, rally brake kit maybe, etc.

What you should do is keep the Focus and do as many events as you can with that car for now.

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Grant Hughes

What about nissan 240!!!! I think its being way over looked for rally the damn fast
with a sr20det tons of room after the swap i mean a clean foot of front bay for
inter cooler and radiator.

the sr20det is cheap and the shit stock! 2000 bucks would get you 3 trannys and 2
good motors. they make 300 hp before you mess with anything in the motor. and make
205hp stock. They are large trailing arms and replacement 4130 ones on ebay and
reinforce the front trailing mounts. Just a thought i have looked at the car a lot
and for a cheap rally car id say hell ya theres even wilwood break adapters for
cheap.

---

TSSFAB.US No HYPE just parts!!!! And check us out on Facebook!!!

Why no love for the Moostang? Bigger after market than all the other cars listed in this thread combined. Get to use all the cool motors from the duratec I-4 to the 2.3L Turbo in the merkur to any v8 you want.

Or since you already have a built rally car go out run it. If you look at the results sheets no one can beat a MkII golf right now so maybe FWD is not so bad.

Andrew_Frick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why no love for the Moostang? Bigger after market
> than all the other cars listed in this thread
> combined. Get to use all the cool motors from the
> duratec I-4 to the 2.3L Turbo in the merkur to any
> v8 you want.
>
> Or since you already have a built rally car go out
> run it. If you look at the results sheets no one
> can beat a MkII golf right now so maybe FWD is not
> so bad.


Show me some rally valved Bilsteins....

Big fucking deal there is tons of useless junk.

And seems the abilty to progressively upgrade to better components for hundreds rather than thousands doesn't weigh much for you.



I challenge you do show me 10 good top results for a MKII Golf in club competition anywhere else in the world than USA and Canada.

Blind following the blind may work, but doesn't mean something is good...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

John if you are custom building a rally bilstein suspension for a car which includes changing the entire real axle and the mounting points in the chasis the shell stops mattering as much.

How is progressively upgrading a Mustang for more speed anymore expensive than taking a Volvo, putting a completely custom suspension in it, swapping in a motor, transmission, toyota rear end, special diff. These parts are the same price or less expensive for a Mustang than they are for a Volvo or Merkur. Plus shells are more available, body parts and glass are more available.

My point was not that the MkII golf is the best car out there. But looking at the results in the US and Canada, which by the way is where even one here is racing, FWD cars are dominating. Since he already has a rally car he will likely be better served by putting more stage miles on the focus than by trying to build a 15-20 year old RWD car.

The point I think you are purposely avoiding because maybe, probably, you know the answer----is NOWHERE has Golf, especially old tire MkII Golves EVER had any kind of routinely good results.

That is why I pointedly asked you to provide the results.
The lame, inane, tired and fuck flat bizaree platidue "we're racing here" as a throw down which supposedly explains all the strange ANOMOLIES we see in US and Canajian rally is sorry, not trying to be mean or whattever, but its fucking LAME.

And it was lame 15 years ago and it was lane 25 years ago...


It's so lame I don't want to waste time 'splaining why its lame, and get you all pissed off, but I strongly suggest it is THAT TYPE OF SLOPPY not thinking very hard
"just state the obvious" type of 'train of thought" which leads in so many ways to the strange choice of cars, and the very VERY modest ----by standards of driving in OTHER places---performance levels and driving levels which so characterizes US and Canajian rally.

I mean I don't think you intend to actually think of the idea in either a detailed way---you have your car---or a braoder sense---and I think, you are implying there is some unknown bad thing about "15-20 year old RWD car"----while ignoring the COMMONEST----and thus not surprisingly "dominant" VW MKII Golves are also what!!!
Oh!!!! built 85 thru what?

And they're OK... Gimme fucking break....

Is there something unique about US or Canadian gravel that explains why the 20-25 year old Golves are dominant?

Come on, stating "what is" as an explanation for "why is" or "how come it is" is bullshit and I'm calling bullshit on you for posting it with zero foundation or reasoning..

WHY DOES GOLVES "DOMINATE"?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I dont know if or why the golf is faster than any other platform here in the states, but when I drove Ozgur's Golf in NY last year I noticed it was a much better car to push and control at the limit therefore keeping the momentum than my old Acura. And that was on season old tires, 120bhp and a bent strut.