BMW 318i

Andrew_Frick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > What is the current price for a VW close
> ratio
> > gear set, a decent final drive and a good
> clutch
> > plate LSD--and labor to install them?
> >
> > What about unbreakable CVs and axles?
> >
> > How about the same for the Nissans?
> >
> >
> > And the Focus that Ben has, what do those
> parts
> > cost?
> >

They aren't needed.

You know, I'm tired of this buillshit from you "they aren't needed" shit.


Rally cars aren't needed.

Nothings fucking needed.

Rally's not needed.
I didn't fucking ask you if you thought they were needed.

It's odd, years ago when people just built their cars as well as they could find the info and the parts, people seemed to think that doing a hotter than dog poo motor was not needed but was MORE FUCKING FUN----got "that"

That a reasonable light car, of say 2000-22000lbs with a motor that was different from the stuff they drove on the street was one of the things that made their rally car a "RALLY" car and not some warmed over limp dick street car..

So I built people hot motors, real strong motors with buckets of mid range that would make power to about 7100-7400 rpm.
Maybe the best was Sam Bryan's Gp2 winning Saab 16v back in 93/94 winter which he took the National title in '95 with..
That was dynoed at (later when he went on to a "Saab" (Opel Vectra in disguise) 900 in Gp5 with) the 212 to 215 bhp we targeted at the beginning of the project in late 93..

Why'd he build that--way back when before anybody was fast---since it wasn't needed?
His baddest competition was from Göran Östlund, who was driving a paltry 8v Saab which, because of Göran's envishet, and insistence at using stock manifolds and K+jet Bosch and stock valve only had around 175 bhp. (that motor had pistons and rods from me)
they both had 5.15 final drives, close ratio gearsets （2.2 for 1st, and 1：1 top）

Why'd they waste the time to build such cars, after all everybody says we all MUCH　ＦＡＳＴＥＲ　ｎｏｗ　ｗｉｔｈ　１３９　ｂｈｐ　ｍｏｔｏｒｓ　ａｎｄ　ｓｔｏｃｋ　ｂｏｘｅｓ　ａｎｄ　２９００　ｌｂ　ｃａｒｓ．

Ａｒｅ　ａｌｌ　ｔｈｅ　"ｔｏｐ" ｄｒｉｖｅｒｓ　now simply　ｔｈａｔ　ｍｕｃｈ　ｆａｓｔｅｒ　ｄｒｉｖｅｒｓ？？？







They used to ask me to find them close ratio boxes and of course short final drives, and gee, the cars went pretty good...

But no it's not needed.

What has changed I wonder, especially since according to EVERYBODY----except those who have been to and seen club level events in the Nordic countries or good BTRDA events, or can read and use their reasoning---- is SOOOOOoooooooooooooooo much faster?


Tell me how a 135 bhp car with a wide ratio box and 4.08 MAX final drive and weighing in at 2850 empty is going to do against a 215 bhp car weighing at say 2400 or 2500 lbs and with a nice box and 5.1 final drive...


The car, not "If a better driver....."

Yep I'm fuck fed up with this chorus "You don't need....to go fast"

You're a self proclaimed Expert on all things Rally so tell me, cause i don't know---obviously:
Why do those Swedes build 230-240 bhp motors and gear their big 2300 Volvos at 5.1?
Granted they're Swedes and that means their skulls are thicker than a 2x4, but the much smarter Finns seem to also build really hot motors and seem to have pretty tight gearboxes and their stuff is EXPENSIVE,

Come on Frick, why do they waste their money and time with 200+ bhp motors and real boxes and big brakes?
I know because I ask them, but you're being the contrarian here so you tell me...
>
> Non of those parts are needed to set fast overall
> times in the US, so window shopping for those
> parts is irrelevant.


Says you.


It may be irrelevant but that wasn't the question, nor was it a good answer.
And whats the snide shit---you wanna say something fuckin spit it out rather than making snide dismissive shit comments----"window shopping" comment?
You don't know anybody who actually buys these parts?
Is it window shopping because that's window shopping for you?

>
> To answer your question. With the current Greek
> financial melt down a close ratio gear set with a
> final drive can be had to for around $2,500 for
> the focus. If you just want a final drive they
> are around $800. And non junk yard plated diff
> like KAAZ is basically the same price no matter
> what car you buy it for.
>

Which is around 800-900 bucks in hand..

So around , because of temporary nice exchange rate USD4200 plus post/freight and then somebody----most of the boys here don't rebuild their gearboxes themselves---
to build up a the box.

So maybe 4500-5000 bucks.

But that's right nobody going "Fast" needs" it.

But we established nobody needs a rally VW or a rally Focus or a 09 rally Subie, so it sorta boils down to people WANT it because it makes the car easier and more FUN to drive, maybe...

Years ago I said to a guy who's wife is a pain at times and was drinking and she did not understand the role gearing plays and why a 4.64 final drive was an integral part of the package I did for their "Rally Lite" 1.5 liter class VW rare-bit.
She was blabbering "we don't NEEED IT, we're having plenty of fun now (car almost never could use 3rd with the 3.64 final drive and hot motor), WE"RE JUST HAVING FUN!!!!!!

Baffled at then not JUMPING on a 4.64 the thing really was screaming for, I mumbled a insightful answer:

"I didn't realise that making a car work better detracted from the fun...."



Nothing is needed.
Cars aren't needed.

Everything we do is measured by the dollar spent to fun return measure.


And of course anybody who talks or reads anything I've written in the last 10 years knows i say the simple answer is to get something with a 2300 turbo motor, and rear drive so we spend a few hundred buying really fun bits when WE WANT, not $5000.


>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Josh Wimpey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew_Frick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> - none of them are driving anything resembling
> the formula preached here: i.e. Big fancy custom
> brakes, proper geometry custom rear suspension
> (for RWD of course because fwd couldn't possibly
> get you to the top), proper gearbox bits, etc.
>

First, to anybody who gets any of the cars I supply parts i do not "preach" that they must have big brakes, custom rear suspension, etc

I tell them when it's time to spend money it may be smarter to put some money toward better things and think of the price difference between junk and good.
And "proper' gears is a whopping $380, so if the shell they start with is autotragique ----as has been the case for numerous boys---or their box is 280k miles and junk---and they have to do something,
it SEEMS stupid to suggest they should find an unsuitable box and pay money for that....

Etc is up to them.

I say a standard line, just said it to Alexi from Toronto "if you had a girlfriend you couldn't play "hide the zucchini" with for 3 years, you'd probably have a wilted weenie....Thus Suspension and freshen brakes, cage it and get going---and start preparing a second shell with better prep---ya gotta have some fun or you loose interest"

So, you too Josh, enough trying to put words in my mouth. I don't take that too well.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> __________-
>
>
>
>
>
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

So, lets get back the question before this turns into some ridiculousness...

-------------------------------------------------------
> > > WHY DOES GOLVES "DOMINATE"?
> >
> > John Vanlandingham
> > Sleezattle, WA, USA

by rephrasing the question one could ask:

>>>>>> WHY DOES MERKURS & VOLVOS NOT "DOMINATE"? <<<<<<<<<

Is it because of inferior potential?
---Brakes? NO
---Motors & HP? NO
---Suspension? NO
---Geometry & weight? NO
---Drive configuration? NO
---Availability of parts & knowledge? NO
---Inherent unreliability of 20+ yr old Merk or Volvo vs 20+ yr old Golf? NO


Is it because of some other factors?
---Small number of completed rally cars? MAYBE
---Outspent by Golf-havers? NO
---Relative experience & talent of the drivers? PROBABLY
---Level of preparation with an eye toward performance and/or strength? NO
---Level of preparation with an eye toward reliability? MAYBE


My theory is that, for the top 2wd drivers in the US, the MARGINAL RETURN in terms of both fun and competitiveness diminishes at a very steep rate once some very basic threshold of performance is reached with a high level of reliability.

---

____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

Josh Wimpey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, lets get back the question before this turns
> into some ridiculousness...
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > > WHY DOES GOLVES "DOMINATE"?
> > >
> > > John Vanlandingham
> > > Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> by rephrasing the question one could ask:
>
> >>>>>> WHY DOES MERKURS &
> VOLVOS NOT "DOMINATE"?

When we last had an experienced driver in a (reasonable) Volvo turbo with an extremely mild spec---Carl Jardevall in his 740, he did CRUSH into dust every car except the Subarat Vermont Sports Car cars.


> <<<<<<<<<
>
> Is it because of inferior potential?
> ---Brakes? NO
> ---Motors & HP? NO
> ---Suspension? NO
> ---Geometry & weight? NO
> ---Drive configuration? NO
> ---Availability of parts & knowledge? NO
> ---Inherent unreliability of 20+ yr old Merk or
> Volvo vs 20+ yr old Golf? NO
>
>
> Is it because of some other factors?
> ---Small number of completed rally cars? MAYBE
> ---Outspent by Golf-havers? NO
> ---Relative experience & talent of the
> drivers? PROBABLY
> ---Level of preparation with an eye toward
> performance and/or strength? NO
> ---Level of preparation with an eye toward
> reliability? MAYBE
>
>
> My theory is that, for the top 2wd drivers in the
> US, the MARGINAL RETURN in terms of both fun and
> competitiveness diminishes at a very steep rate
> once some very basic threshold of performance is
> reached with a high level of reliability.

You reckon fun diminishes if you have a bit more poop?
Maybe...in a VW because then the weaknesses in the basic car rears their ugly head:
WEAK shell
WEAK front crossmember
WEAK axle/CV
Weak rear beam


Not to be mean but it is a little shitbox. Granted a shitbox with very GOOD dynamics ---until the beam bends, or the motor mounts fail and the thing falls on te ground...
(It's odd but I am getting attacked when I've not only reccomended Golves to people as street cars, I've help stacks of guys with critical parts)

And if one is rephrasing questions: how do you suppose you and the other currently high placing 2wd guys would do in a RELIABLE 200-230 bhp car with a nice fat torque range and "pretty good"---and above all reliable box axle, diff, brakes?

There's a reason I recommend the 2 cars i do and a big one is the ease that a bigger---dimensionally internally---2.3 can make 200-250 ft/lbs and how that makes expensive things like: Hot engine build, close ratio box, and really short final drive---superfluous (and bear in mind that I pay the rent building these things----think of what I'm saying: do this and you don't have to see me about spending lotsa dough)

Those cars are much more powerful STOCK (and in the case of the Volvo motor absurdly strong)(The Ford is also strong, and no problem, but the nicer steel crank in the Volvo is the trump card), and all the stuff is sized for more weight and more power.

So for a small weight penalty, maybe 100-150 lbs you get a car that is unstressed but if not twice the BHP, for sure twice the torque.

As for reliablity in use, the only long term Xratty we've seen was my friend colin McCleery from Michigan who did about 9 seasons with stock everything except suspension and a LSD before the 160k box puked, but 2hours later he was on his way...

Oh as for Paulinos "It's simple physics" I always thought I had the solution to putting a lot of weight on the front wheels with that middle pedal: stomp on it and weight goes forward, front wheels bite and round the corner I go...

What is it that has you guys picking on decent---not shitbox--but decent simple cheap RWD cars?

It does seem to be the solution everywhere where rally has a mass following..


>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> __________-
>
>
>
>
>
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I am not arguing one way or another who is going to win, but in the name of numbers, here are prices for volvo 240 parts, for a person on a budget, who wants "room to grow" its hard to beat. Plus rwd is just plain old fun.

Also, Dave Clark MkII still wins the rally per dollar calculation.

Cosworth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All I know is the Honda prices for those parts and
> from what I've bought and or researched these are
> the prices.
>
> Dogbox 6sp with choice of FD $3999
> Dogbox GrN 5sp and FD $4500
>
> Close ratio syncro set, $900-2500 depending on
> brand
>
Good ratios in a freshly rebuilt T5, including the box and the adaptor kit, $600

> Final drives from 4.76 all the way to 6.33 -
> $499-$750
>
Dana 30 ring and pinions, any ratio $150, 4x4 shop installs it in 2 Hrs. for $250

> Quaife diff - $900
> Kaaz diff - $800
>
Welded diff: FREE!

> Halfshafts, they go from $150 OE replacements,
> $600 (800hp drag) to 3500euro Pankle units.

Whats a halfshaft? You should get whole shafts!


Complete 200 hp stock turbo motor: I have been given 2 for free for just carting them off this year.

Extra shells, running 242s common at $300-600, cars in good shape for spares; often free on craiglist.

I have run 2 events in my 240, bone stock except JV's suspension and a header. Tons of fun. I am very much looking forward to tricking it out this summer with quick steer, dual master brakes, and a good gear box.

Cheers
-Al

How come no one rallys new Minis or Crown Vics?

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You reckon fun diminishes if you have a bit more
> poop?
> Maybe...in a VW because then the weaknesses in the
> basic car rears their ugly head:
> WEAK shell
> WEAK front crossmember
> WEAK axle/CV
> Weak rear beam

I didn't say that fun diminishes, but MARGINAL RETURNS diminish once you are already doing enough to win...


> Not to be mean but it is a little shitbox. Granted
> a shitbox with very GOOD dynamics ---until the
> beam bends, or the motor mounts fail and the thing
> falls on te ground...

Agreed


> (It's odd but I am getting attacked when I've not
> only reccomended Golves to people as street cars,
> I've help stacks of guys with critical parts)

I don't think you are being attacked. People just have different opinions about the question WHY DOES GOLVES DOMINATES? Period.


> And if one is rephrasing questions: how do you
> suppose you and the other currently high placing
> 2wd guys would do in a RELIABLE 200-230 bhp car
> with a nice fat torque range and "pretty
> good"---and above all reliable box axle, diff,
> brakes?

No idea. I would love to find out but I doubt that anyone who is already successful in some POS has any intention of spending their own money to do so unless they start getting spanked by said machinery first...



> What is it that has you guys picking on
> decent---not shitbox--but decent simple cheap RWD
> cars?


I am not picking on the cars or on the suggested preparation methods or on you. I personally would love to have one to play with. I was just answering WHY DOES GOLVES DOMINATE? In my opinion, the answer is easy---- Given the relative depth of the fields in US rally, driving is far more important than vehicle performance potential once a very basic level of performance and reliability has been attained. It just so happens that there are a few golfs out there that have reached the basic performance and reliability threshold AND are well driven. This may be purely luck, and all of these drivers may indeed be much much faster in different equipment. It may be the case that in the near future, different cars & drivers will emerge as dominant forces...

---

____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And whats the snide shit---you wanna say something
> fuckin spit it out rather than making snide
> dismissive shit comments---
>

Seriously that's the funniest thing I have read in a long time coming from the keyboard of JVL. 98% of what you type, true or untrue, right or wrong, crazy or sane, would qualify as the the above and then you want to bitch about others doing it.

Too funny.

Carry on.

---

Quote
Morison
[jvl] Ohh noooohs! There's an h'off tawpik thread in the gent-urinal dick-cushion four-hum. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!![/jvl]

RallyTaco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > And whats the snide shit---you wanna say
> something
> > fuckin spit it out rather than making snide
> > dismissive shit comments---
> >
>
> Seriously that's the funniest thing I have read in
> a long time coming from the keyboard of JVL. 98%
> of what you type, true or untrue, right or wrong,
> crazy or sane, would qualify as the the above and
> then you want to bitch about others doing it.
>
> Too funny.
>

Snide shit?
You obviously can't read.. and you who can't read can't tell the difference between bitchin---useless negative comments like yours----and me saying "Say what you mean--explain WHY and HOW...rather than dismissive shit

That is saying "ENGAGE in DIALOG' which is useful rather than flat, "you don't need that stuff...."

Remember the guy asking the original questions is what would be called a NEWB or a NOOB, and he's asking and trying to learn....."you don't need that" doesn't explain much....



Come back when you can't read and comprehend better...
>
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Tell me how a 135 bhp car with a wide ratio box and 4.08 MAX final drive and >weighing in at 2850 empty is going to do against a 215 bhp car weighing at say 2400 >or 2500 lbs and with a nice box and 5.1 final drive...

they will lose 8 times out of 10. As long as 1 time out of 10 the guy in the faster car has less experience, and the other 1 time they DNF!

Or if you are pushing them out of air planes and the flying finish is 2 feet above the ground. then i'de say the heavier car will win!



Josh Wimpey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Given the relative depth of the fields in US rally, driving is far more important >than vehicle performance potential once a very basic level of performance and >reliability has been attained. It just so happens that there are a few golfs out >there that have reached the basic performance and reliability threshold AND are >well driven

Can i Agree with both of you? Yes if the cars performance level is close enough to each other (and the difference in cars can be greater as performance level goes up)


Still a given car that dominates has reasons for doing so, Its not the stock specs on autos.msn.com , but the reasonable attainable specs for How much??

If you can get a VW to weight 2k pounds and make 180Hp for 3K
and it costs me 6K in a volvo and i weight 400 more, I'de expect to see VW on the top of the standings A LOT more often than vovlo. Hell I'de expect to see VW more on the entry list a lot more too!

So its not so much the out of the box specs.. But the car's ability to have its performance level bumped up at a better price point than other cars, is (IMO) the reason . this attracts many more drivers, bigger pool of drivers = finding those rare gem drivers.

also once a car has history Say chris duplessis and josh wimpey keep winning, and a crop of new kids hop in, and they look up past results. the new kids want to start off with proven winners, and it then completes a circle, and said car becomes "the winninest car" . If a given model Gets 40% of the new drivers it has a better chance of having that rare gem hop in, then a car that grabs 4%.


I also think as you slide further and further down the performance scale , your car starts to play a larger role in dictating the lowest possible stage time you can turn in.

and in terms of groupings when there are less cars stage ready , the chances of having one prepared to a reasonable level AND a fast driver go down.

I also get a bit sick of "not needed" especially when i show up with 80HP motor and someone with 160hp starts telling me how it doesn't matter at all...
"look it doesn't matter for ANYTHING, Its ALL Driver ,and btw i think $5,000 for my motor work was a good deal... "

SURE lol the whole more hp thing is a rumor started by motor builders to drum up work right? ... hehehe , funny stuff!

alkun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I am not arguing one way or another who is going
> to win, but in the name of numbers, here are
> prices for volvo 240 parts, for a person on a
> budget, who wants "room to grow" its hard to beat.
> Plus rwd is just plain old fun.
>
> Also, Dave Clark MkII still wins the rally per
> dollar calculation.
>
> Cosworth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > All I know is the Honda prices for those
> parts and
> > from what I've bought and or researched these
> are
> > the prices.
> >
> > Dogbox 6sp with choice of FD $3999
> > Dogbox GrN 5sp and FD $4500
> >
> > Close ratio syncro set, $900-2500 depending
> on
> > brand
> >
> Good ratios in a freshly rebuilt T5, including the
> box and the adaptor kit, $600
>
> > Final drives from 4.76 all the way to 6.33 -
> > $499-$750
> >
> Dana 30 ring and pinions, any ratio $150, 4x4
> shop installs it in 2 Hrs. for $250
>
> > Quaife diff - $900
> > Kaaz diff - $800
> >
> Welded diff: FREE!
>
> > Halfshafts, they go from $150 OE
> replacements,
> > $600 (800hp drag) to 3500euro Pankle units.
>
> Whats a halfshaft? You should get whole shafts!
>
>
> Complete 200 hp stock turbo motor: I have been
> given 2 for free for just carting them off this
> year.
>
> Extra shells, running 242s common at $300-600,
> cars in good shape for spares; often free on
> craiglist.
>
> I have run 2 events in my 240, bone stock except
> JV's suspension and a header. Tons of fun. I am
> very much looking forward to tricking it out this
> summer with quick steer, dual master brakes, and a
> good gear box.
>
> Cheers
> -Al
>
> How come no one rallys new Minis or Crown Vics?

There are those who chose to run a ratle trap and those who dont. For that there's the 24hr of Lemons.

But out of all the things you could do to imporve the performance and get actual results in your car, why the dual master setup? Are you going to use the balance bar to change your brake bias to compesate for fuel loads or tire degradation?




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2010 07:05PM by Cosworth.

This is why Golves "dominate" in my neck of the woods:

Merkur xr4ti
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/f-merkur-xr4ti-Classifieds-W0QQKeywordZmerkurQ20Q20xr4tiQQisSearchFormZtrueQQuseLocalAddressZfalse

ONE ad, someone elses resto-perv project.

Volvo 240
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/f-volvo-240-Classifieds-W0QQKeywordZvolvoQ20240QQisSearchFormZtrueQQuseLocalAddressZfalse

14 ads (some are for parts or weird stuff), 7 actual cars, 5 of them under $2000

VW golf
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/f-volkswagen-golf-Classifieds-W0QQKeywordZvolkswagenQ20golfQQisSearchFormZtrueQQuseLocalAddressZfalse

81 !! ads, cars of all years (mk2 getting rare I admit, but that doesn't matter too much with the interchangeable generations), lotsa parts ads, 12 cars under $2000.

Translate this into a similar context of availability of shells and parts in wreking yards, local shop parts availability, local knowledge base/clubs/groups whatever.
Compound all that with some people having shown good results (overall podiums) in golfs over the years, and it's easy to see why they are fairly common rally car builds in the deep dark north. It may not be the best, and I've grown to a point where I would love to play around with a RWD earth scorcher, but sometimes the devil you know..... etc.

Just for laughs...

Sunfire
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/f-sunfire-Classifieds-W0QQKeywordZsunfireQQisSearchFormZtrueQQuseLocalAddressZfalse

345 ads of total shit box glory, why don't more people rally sunfires? Ha, just kidding, I know why, they totally suck, that's why.

Quick and consise, that's my goal.

More people don't rally 2WD because there's a perceived lack of support and people want support.

The people that spend lotsa money on their rally cars (usually already weathier types in general) are building them to show off the shop they own, want to own, or have grandiose ideas of going to the X Games.

VW Golfs can recruit two - four decent volunteer mechanics at any rally in the country. The Volvo and Merkur communities just aren't that interested. There's probably ten to fifty times the amount of shops that specialize in VWs willing to give free labor or discounts or sometimes money. There's almost no Merkur ones, especially not local to anyone.

This is the main reason I am excited about the BMW 318ti. There's tons of BMW specialty shops and aftermarket stuff so there is a potential for support. The cars are newer and have more potential for financial support than a Merkur which I put at around zero.

Everyone and anyone who has ever driven or rode in the Merkur loved it. I've driven hot VWs, open class Subarus, and an occasional huge POS and nothing puts a smile on my face like the Merkur.

---

Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quick and consise, that's my goal.
>
> More people don't rally 2WD because there's a
> perceived lack of support and people want
> support.
>
> The people that spend lotsa money on their rally
> cars (usually already weathier types in general)
> are building them to show off the shop they own,
> want to own, or have grandiose ideas of going to
> the X Games.
>
> VW Golfs can recruit two - four decent volunteer
> mechanics at any rally in the country. The Volvo
> and Merkur communities just aren't that
> interested. There's probably ten to fifty times
> the amount of shops that specialize in VWs willing
> to give free labor or discounts or sometimes
> money. There's almost no Merkur ones, especially
> not local to anyone.


Oooooohhhhhhhhh really? WOT DA FAWK YOUSE SAYING---WTF am I?
>
> This is the main reason I am excited about the BMW
> 318ti. There's tons of BMW specialty shops and
> aftermarket stuff so there is a potential for
> support. The cars are newer and have more
> potential for financial support than a Merkur
> which I put at around zero.

Yeah....somebody better be excited cause I look like I have the mange from pulling hair out with this stuff you guys sent..

Dooood where's the rear shock?
>
> Everyone and anyone who has ever driven or rode in
> the Merkur loved it. I've driven hot VWs, open
> class Subarus, and an occasional huge POS and
> nothing puts a smile on my face like the Merkur.

It is pretty damn good iddnit?
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
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must admit, proof:

The suspension stuff was all off by the time I really saw the car. Never really looked at the front stuff.

Rear shock? I gave Dave the rear shock out of the Merkur and he has a set of turrets so it'll probably be the same as you use in rear as on a Merkur.

I imagine the cage and turrets may be done by now. I'm guessing Dave won't be doing a whole lot on the car in the next six weeks since he has to focus on his Evo and Pike's Peak.

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Grant Hughes