Construction Zone
Don\
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Professional Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Fossilized
Posts: 14,152

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: BMW 318i
May 11, 2010 08:47PM
alkun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> must admit, proof:

Oh but even club level guys today with slightly warmed over Golves are much faster than the WRC cars--and drivers_ from back then---way faster, so having 3 Sierras, simple basic rwd cars in the top 3 is meaningless!
MEANINGLESS!!!!






John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Andrew_Frick
Andrew Frick
Ultra Moderator
Location: Greenville, SC
Join Date: 05/18/2007
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 684

Rally Car:
Rally Spec Ford Focus


Re: BMW 318i
May 24, 2010 06:47AM
Man check out these slow ass FWD cars like Foci, Golves, Hondas, and two *gasp* toyotas that took the top 5 spots at the last Max-attack event.

1. Dillon Van Way/Ben Slocum, Ford Focus ($1500)
2. Cody Crane/Billy Irvin, Honda CRX ($1200)
3. Chris Duplessis/Ron Zaras, Scion XD ($1000)
4. Gaylord Van Brocklin/Steve Secviar, VW Golf ($800)
5. Brian Gottlieb/Pat Darrow, Toyota FX-16 ($500).

I heard the third place car is a big heavy modern car with bad gearing, no fancy motor or brakes, just suspension and reliability upgrades. But I guess these results are meaningless.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Cosworth
Paulinho Ferreira
Super Moderator
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: 03/15/2007
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 721

Rally Car:
Honda Civic



Re: BMW 318i
May 24, 2010 07:41AM
Andrew_Frick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heard the third place car is a big heavy modern
> car with bad gearing, no fancy motor or brakes,
> just suspension and reliability upgrades. But I
> guess these results are meaningless.

The Scion is a ~2600lbs 128hp with a fuel economy gearbox, the suspension on it is a Tein (fast & the furious) type coilovers, lighweight and very fragile roadracing rims (several were bent) and the brakes were stock with rear drums! The only thing that was really rally appropriate on that car were the BFG tyres.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Professional Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Fossilized
Posts: 14,152

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: BMW 318i
May 24, 2010 12:06PM
Andrew_Frick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Man check out these slow ass FWD cars like Foci,
> Golves, Hondas, and two *gasp* toyotas that took
> the top 5 spots at the last Max-attack event.
>
> 1. Dillon Van Way/Ben Slocum, Ford Focus ($1500)
> 2. Cody Crane/Billy Irvin, Honda CRX ($1200)
> 3. Chris Duplessis/Ron Zaras, Scion XD ($1000)
> 4. Gaylord Van Brocklin/Steve Secviar, VW Golf
> ($800)
> 5. Brian Gottlieb/Pat Darrow, Toyota FX-16
> ($500).
>
> I heard the third place car is a big heavy modern
> car with bad gearing, no fancy motor or brakes,
> just suspension and reliability upgrades. But I
> guess these results are meaningless.


Hey Frick, you want a argument.

You're trolling big time, and I don't what you're trying to prove but I'll say it clearly:
I think you are trying to be an obnoxious asshole for no good reason...(and succeeding pretty good from all reports)

Ask Garth is the 96 with a little girly ass lame motor if he thought he was "going fast' when he was beating many of these guys---..
You seem to have some point to prove---well prove it.

But mainly I think you're just trying to argue.

Why do you feel diminished or offended or whatever chip you have on your shoulder it is when somebody points out that some places have scads of very much faster drivers...

I think you're like most only average bright troll type "net-i-zen" and take everything that is not stroking you as some sort of veiled attack, and that now you're trying to prove me "wrong" or "put me in my place".


What you in your deluded "you are going to show us" anger have failed miserably to recognise is in pointed my friends and fellow competitors or guys I am trying to help in the direction of watching Swedish Grupp H, or Finnish F-cup and watching a) what they are driving, cool smiley how well what they are driving what they are driving, c0 how flat shockingly FAST ---checking results and average speeds and WATCHING what F-cup LOOKS like vs what WE out there having fun LOOKS like----


it is all done to encourage them.

Of course those I get along with, who are not assholes looking for net-argument, understand it is about encouragement.

And we see several of our friends Max-Attack week end SUNK-FUXXORED by the very things I say we have no clear upgrade path if/when we discover the stock parts designed for grocery getting explode like Buress' and several other drive axles/CV/inner stubbie did, were sad for our friends because they're out of the event for something we knew was a POTENTIAL DNF causing problem, and it came to pass---yet again---and we have nowhere to go....
So we're bummed knowing there'sa these nasty problems lurking...

Which is so simple to solve on some vehicles.
Simple and cheap.

So tel us why you feel personally inadequate and want to argue that you're so fast---all by proxy of course---and why know someplace else in the world there's lots of guys in simpler spec cars going far harder, far faster, why that makes you so angry...



If you one brilliant point is that all it takes to "podium" in 2wd in USA is a near stock car of virtually any sort, well fine.
If you are suggesting, as it seems, that since these guys, lots of them my friends Frick, are placing OK, then by default "they are fast" in some absolute sense, well you're silly.
In some relative sense, relative to the other cars out there, inarguably they "went faster" but that doesn't mean in broader measure they'd be "fast".



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Dazed_Driver
Banned
Mod Moderator
Location: John and Skyes Magic Love liar
Join Date: 08/24/2007
Posts: 2,154



Re: BMW 318i
May 24, 2010 03:39PM
Just to play devils advocate....

Group F cars seem to run the same damn roads a TON. They have "home quart advantage." Also, the amount of prep in some of those RWD cars equals OR EXCEEDS the SP and Open cars here.

Decent RWD cars may, or may not be more available over there, then they are here. And support for them. A lot of people like options for what to buy for their cars.



"If you one brilliant point is that all it takes to "podium" in 2wd in USA is a near stock car of virtually any sort, well fine"

OK, so you've just added a point FOR FWD, as after all, with a good enough driver, a stock FWD will take a podium. And that means it beat out every other 2wd car, but the potentially two above it, and the AWD cars. Although, the overall could be faster then an overall.


Also, there are some people who like building cars, and some who like driving, and some who like both.

If you were a person who liked driving, was good at driving, finishing top 5 consistently, podiuming (yes, I made that up, lol) and was driving quick enough to win and have your fun, why spend 2k on a gear set, when you could spend it on tires, or gas, or an entry and hotel?

When you get the driving skill level where you dont need as much prep to win, you can use the money you're not spending on upgrades, on consumables and entrys/event costs.



And now it is popcorn time.




Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Josh Wimpey
Josh Wimpey
Infallible Moderator
Location: VA
Join Date: 12/27/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 649

Rally Car:
Sneak the Golf


Re: BMW 318i
May 24, 2010 04:13PM
Ferchristsakes John, give it a rest.... No one is attacking you. AND, Frick has not once claimed directly or indirectly that he is "Fast" so knock it off already.

The mythical Finn who can outrun the ENTIRE US rally field in a stock 1.2L Yugo without notes or recce does not exist. Are there lots of fast Finns?-- No doubt! Are the fastest Finns faster than the fastest Americans? Maybe. Does any of it mean jack-shit for US rally? Probably not!

"Fast" IS a relative term. "Fast" is ONLY relevant in a relative sense. So, until those Europeans start showing up at US rallys with their magical-go-fast-sauce and winning, people in barely warmed-over fwd street cars can and will be the "Fast" guys in US rally.

If it were the case that the Europeans were faster DRIVERS, then they would come here and storm away from everyone with 10+minute leads when they show up. That is NOT the case. Apple-to-apples (aka US-spec cars on Jemba notes on US stages there is not really any difference). Even at events with 2-3 pass recce like Rally NY, and similar US-spec equipment, Example: Jani Paasonen was just barely as fast as Tom Lawless (Who I suspect would not win a Rally America event).

Stig, Higgins, etc., etc. didn't regularly trounce the US field by 10 minutes.... Apples-to-apples.



____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2010 04:15PM by Josh Wimpey.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
RallyTaco
Chris Lanctot
Ultra Moderator
Location: Livonia, MI
Join Date: 03/15/2008
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 107

Rally Car:
just a wannabe



Re: BMW 318i
May 24, 2010 11:29PM
john vanlandingham Wrote:

> If you are suggesting, as it seems, that since
> these guys, lots of them my friends Frick, are
> placing OK, then by default "they are fast" in
> some absolute sense, well you're silly.
> In some relative sense, relative to the other cars
> out there, inarguably they "went faster" but that
> doesn't mean in broader measure they'd be "fast".

I think it's silly to watch Cody Crane drive and then lump him in with with the above ridiculous statement.

In the particular absolute sense of the radar trap at the one spectator area he went faster then all the open cars. That "relative" or "broad" enough for you?

I don't really have a stake in the argument other than wishing you would stop being such a dick because you troll the hardest of them all and you turn off more people who are into RWD and potentially Volvos than you "encourage" by doubling down on your over the top arguments like the above.






Quote
Morison
[jvl] Ohh noooohs! There's an h'off tawpik thread in the gent-urinal dick-cushion four-hum. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!![/jvl]
Please Login or Register to post a reply
DaveK
Dave Kern
Super Moderator
Location: Centennial
Join Date: 07/11/2008
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 1,085

Rally Car:
Compact M3 & Evo IX


Re: BMW 318i
May 25, 2010 12:00AM
NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone and anyone who has ever driven or rode in
> the Merkur loved it. I've driven hot VWs, open
> class Subarus, and an occasional huge POS and
> nothing puts a smile on my face like the Merkur.

Have you ridden in the Evo lately? For me the fun factor is directly proportional to how sideways you are...not that this criteria necessarily equates to the fastest car out there.

After dealing with late 80s/early 90s rust buckets (323GTX & GVR-4s), I didn't want something rusty, or something where most of the parts in the JYs are rusty. BMW seemed to fit the bill, we'll find out how it does in the dirt later this summer.

Dave
Please Login or Register to post a reply
turoc
Ozgur Simsek
Mega Moderator
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Join Date: 06/07/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 561

Rally Car:
working on a Veedub


Re: BMW 318i
May 25, 2010 12:11AM
Josh Wimpey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Even at events with
> 2-3 pass recce like Rally NY, and similar US-spec
> equipment, Example: Jani Paasonen was just barely
> as fast as Tom Lawless (Who I suspect would not
> win a Rally America event).
>

Josh,
Paasonen and RNY is a bad example. I was chatting with NC crew Arek and he had told me they lost rwd and after replacing the diff etc... they did not have enough time to connect the prop shafts completely. The car was also in "safe mode" and was well under power as they kept blowing motors in prior events. Up until the issue, they were sitting comfortably in first. Also, isn't that car a grp N spin off 2 lt? (vs stroked EVO?)




rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Josh Wimpey
Josh Wimpey
Infallible Moderator
Location: VA
Join Date: 12/27/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 649

Rally Car:
Sneak the Golf


Re: BMW 318i
May 25, 2010 08:11AM
turoc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Josh,
> Paasonen and RNY is a bad example. I was chatting
> with NC crew Arek and he had told me they lost rwd
> and after replacing the diff etc... they did not
> have enough time to connect the prop shafts
> completely. The car was also in "safe mode" and
> was well under power as they kept blowing motors
> in prior events. Up until the issue, they were
> sitting comfortably in first. Also, isn't that car
> a grp N spin off 2 lt? (vs stroked EVO?)
>

I hardly think it is a bad example. Even before they started having trouble with the car Paasonnen was only able to put a handful of seconds on the competition. He was by no means running away from the field. And, the car is hardly group N.... Besides, Jani should have been able to beat the field by 6 minutes in a rwd Escort!




____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Professional Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Fossilized
Posts: 14,152

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: BMW 318i
May 25, 2010 09:04AM
Josh Wimpey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> turoc Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Josh,
> > Paasonen and RNY is a bad example. I was
> chatting
> > with NC crew Arek and he had told me they
> lost rwd
> > and after replacing the diff etc... they did
> not
> > have enough time to connect the prop shafts
> > completely. The car was also in "safe mode"
> and
> > was well under power as they kept blowing
> motors
> > in prior events. Up until the issue, they
> were
> > sitting comfortably in first. Also, isn't
> that car
> > a grp N spin off 2 lt? (vs stroked EVO?)
> >
>
> I hardly think it is a bad example. Even before
> they started having trouble with the car Paasonnen
> was only able to put a handful of seconds on the
> competition. He was by no means running away from
> the field. And, the car is hardly group N....
> Besides, Jani should have been able to beat the
> field by 6 minutes in a rwd Escort!
>
>
You have seen Toni Gardemeister's times in his F-cup car vs his works WRC Suzuki haven't you?



SELDOM does a driver shine in one shot "guest appearances" away from their normal car/set up/service routine/crew.

(Jeeeze you could throw that back in my face and say that explains Blockie and Pastrmi finish consistently 50th-60th (out of 120) at 08 McRae stages, and 25-60 minutes after the leaders in their few WRC appearances.)

But a note: Blomqvist in Maine, did in fact pull out some huge lead in just 4-5 stages, then throttled back to cruise. And Blomqvist was maybe minimum 10-12 years past his "sell-by-date".


>
>
>
>
>
>






John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
phlat65
Sean Medcroft
Junior Moderator
Location: Edmonds, Washington
Join Date: 02/12/2009
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 1,802

Rally Car:
Building a Merkur


Re: BMW 318i
May 25, 2010 09:24AM
my friend was at the McRae stages and we have talked about it. He said when Kenny/Travie came by they looked like a couple noobs who shouldn't have been out there.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Professional Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Fossilized
Posts: 14,152

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: BMW 318i
May 25, 2010 10:10AM
Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just to play devils advocate....
>
> Group F cars seem to run the same damn roads a
> TON.


Not too sure they use their roads more than anywhere else.
WE here in the US use a fair number of roads for decades.
So that might be a wash.





>They have "home quart advantage."

Is that something akin to "Home court" advantage?
I think that may be over emphasised, I know my highest placings OA were in places I have never been before (Maine and Michigan, and some years ago Canada)


Also, the
> amount of prep in some of those RWD cars equals OR
> EXCEEDS the SP and Open cars here.

That is the point that Andrew frick and I are twisting over.
We had a nice long phonne call and as often, too often is the case, NEITHER of us was hearing the tone or the main underlying point.
His AND mine were it turns out EXACTLY the same underlying goal:
100+, hell 150+ car fields of guys who can keep coming back.

Now there are regional differences on what's available to begin with which lies behind what he thinks the route to 150 car fields and what I think is the path and those differences, now that we've talked, are clearer.

WE are blessed with ABUNDANT non-rusty "older" cars like 240 Volvos and even Xratties----where he is he just doesn't come across them.
I suggested that it could be just that he's not into the same Xratty and Volvo "networks" and told him I've found starter cars for easily 10-15 guys out in the "Domestic car" wilderness at the desirable 100-600 buck range.

Andrew also pointed out something that I have been dimly aware of and didn't or don't know how much it should 'weigh" in the whole equation of what cars to start with.

He said "cars like a Focus or something similar....are only 6 or 10 years old so things like every bushing in the car aren't worn out, so guys don't have to worry about changing them"......while my take is if you got the shell for $200 you have $2000 to 3000 more bucks laying around so you CAN change bushings..
His counter, which is legit, was that it SEEMS that most of the noobs he sees aren't particularly adept at working on cars.

And THAT may be the biggest underlying assumption on my part: I assume anybody rallying a car INTENDS to learn basic component swapping and welding.
>
> Decent RWD cars may, or may not be more available
> over there, then they are here. And support for
> them. A lot of people like options for what to buy
> for their cars.
>
>
>
> "If you one brilliant point is that all it takes
> to "podium" in 2wd in USA is a near stock car of
> virtually any sort, well fine"
>
> OK, so you've just added a point FOR FWD, as after
> all, with a good enough driver, a stock FWD will
> take a podium. And that means it beat out every
> other 2wd car, but the potentially two above it,
> and the AWD cars. Although, the overall could be
> faster then an overall.
>
>
> Also, there are some people who like building
> cars, and some who like driving, and some who like
> both.
>
> If you were a person who liked driving, was good
> at driving, finishing top 5 consistently,
> podiuming (yes, I made that up, lol) and was
> driving quick enough to win and have your fun, why
> spend 2k on a gear set, when you could spend it on
> tires, or gas, or an entry and hotel?

Well the main reason I push the 2 cars I do, both 2300 TURBO motors is just because they don't NEED to be "built" or need close ratios, that they work just fine with stockish wide ratio boxes, or at most with a $380 gearset.
>
> When you get the driving skill level where you
> dont need as much prep to win, you can use the
> money you're not spending on upgrades, on
> consumables and entrys/event costs.
>
>
>
> And now it is popcorn time.
>
>
> Feisty Peacock?
>
>






John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Cosworth
Paulinho Ferreira
Super Moderator
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: 03/15/2007
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 721

Rally Car:
Honda Civic



Re: BMW 318i
May 25, 2010 01:26PM
How about the good'ol drag racers term; Race whacha brung!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Josh Wimpey
Josh Wimpey
Infallible Moderator
Location: VA
Join Date: 12/27/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 649

Rally Car:
Sneak the Golf


BMW E36 Compact pics for DaveK
May 25, 2010 01:55PM
Hey Dave, Pics for your thread.






____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Attachments:
open | download - DSC_0009.JPG (186.4 KB)
DSC_0009.JPG
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login