thoughts on braided brake lines for half the car

so i'm going to reroute my rear brake line through the cab so i can get them away from the underside of the car. i was always planning on just using some decent braided line with some AN fittings. seems like it would be fairly easy to do it this. there are a bunch of pre made stuff out there, fitting, bulk head connectors, ect

but i was having a conversation with another rally guy and he was saying i should stay away from doing the whole rear section with braided lines. i was pretty confused. i have heard of some rally cars having full braided systems, no hard lines what so ever.

are there any thoughts, concerns, information i should know about running soft lines pretty much from the master cylinder back.

i mean clearly the ease of installation is a great draw. but he talked about even though they are braided, there is still flex to the lines. i mean i guess this would be true, but has to be a lot less then normal rubber lines.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

It is pointless waste of money to use braided.
It'll cost hundreds to do what 12-15 bucks would do in plain ordinary hard line...
What ADVANTAGE would wasting hundred of dollars for braided give you?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Serious waste of time and money. Use as much hard line as possible. I've seen braided leak at the fittings. Hard line is easier to route out of the way. Bend it and it stays there. Easy to patch if needed with a cheap flare tool and a union, stuff available at nearly every parts or hardware store.

ok then, the oldies have spoken. guess i'll yank all the stuff from the legacy i'm parting out to save me even more $$$.

and while i have the attention of 2 of my favorite rally gurus, thoughts about rear brakes. i'm having my axles turned down to fit the front rotors. it was an idea i had after talking to john and saying i should look for something with a good hat to it. low and behold the fronts have a decent hat to them, vented and have the right lug pattern and less parts to carry around because it will share the same rotors. then i thought, well hell if i'm using the front rotors might as well use the front caliper.

ok sure, over kill, yes, ridicules, maybe. but one again less parts to carry, simpler set up in the rear, only having to run hard lines because they are a fixed caliper. and you might be surprised how damn close the tabs line up.

also the way i figured it, and i might be way wrong on my thinking here, but my 1.2" piston 4 pot caliper needs the same fluid as a 2.4" single piston caliper because the 4 pot is moving half the distance then the 1 pot. am i totally wrong here. because i'm trying to think master cylinder too.

the stock 2nd gen rx7 masters are 7/8". i have available up to a 1 1/16 thanks to subaru stuff shockingly fitting just perfect.

thoughts

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

Besides, the braided lines have much more compliance then hard lines.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

I just got a 25' roll of premium ultra fancy coated 3/16 hard brake line to re-do a friend's rally car for a whopping $20. Fittings run about 30 cents each.

Compare that to $4.59/ft for -3 brake line from pegasus, which is about $115 for 25 feet. And fittings anywhere from $5 to $25 a piece... It gets spendy real fast.

where did you get the roll of tubing from? i just parted out a legacy so i have tons of lines from there. but if i cant get that stuff to work need a back up plan.

whats the best way of bending that stuff with out kinking it?

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

mellow65 Wrote:

> whats the best way of bending that stuff with out
> kinking it?


Use your hands. Or, bend around something big like your tranny tunnel, or even some roll cage tube depending on what radius you need. But all the stuff in our car was bent just using my hands. Lots of little bends to get it just right. Pretty easy.

Get a good flare tool. Even with a good one it can be a bit of a bitch to get the joints so they don't leak the first time. But it gets easier with practice. At Gene's age, he's probably done 1,000 times the joints that I have.

Doug

Your local autoparts store should sell brake line by the roll, thats where I got mine.
I bend it by hand too. Just form a nice radius for each bend and you wont kink it.

Doug Heredos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mellow65 Wrote:
>
> > whats the best way of bending that stuff with
> out
> > kinking it?
>
>
> Use your hands. Or, bend around something big
> like your tranny tunnel, or even some roll cage
> tube depending on what radius you need. But all
> the stuff in our car was bent just using my hands.
> Lots of little bends to get it just right. Pretty
> easy.
>
> Get a good flare tool. Even with a good one it
> can be a bit of a bitch to get the joints so they
> don't leak the first time. But it gets easier
> with practice. At Gene's age, he's probably done
> 1,000 times the joints that I have.
>
> Doug


Ahem...at my age I've done a bit of asskickin too, you young whippersnapper

BTW what the hell is whippersnapper anyway??

heymagic Wrote:
-
> BTW what the hell is whippersnapper anyway??
>
>


Me.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Besides, the braided lines have much more
> compliance then hard lines.
>
> Feisty Peacock?
>
>


This is true. My Ascona when I got it had the rear axle all plumbed with braided teflon line. After a flat tore that up a bit I replumbed the rear axle with hard line (with just a braided line from the chassis to the axle). Pedal firmness was improved quite noticeably even with that 3 or 4 feet or so of braided line replaced. That's why it surprised me when I was in England at R.E.D. and Ford Boreham and saw the Escort Cossies with the entire brake systems plumbed with braided teflon lines. Faster and easier to plumb if you have a huge budget but it's got to affect the pedal feel I would think.

my mazda only has braided line (i didn't pay for it) and the pedal is plenty firm.

DirkaDirkaJack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> my mazda only has braided line (i didn't pay for
> it) and the pedal is plenty firm.


This is a preference. My mountain bike had vinyl lines for the hydraulic disc brakes. It now has steel braided lines. I HATE squishy brakes, and that would be reflected in all braided line setups.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

My Merkur has only braided lines and people have complained about pedal stiffness since they're all used to power assisted brakes. It is more expensive though as others have already pointed out. Three or four years down the road though and I don't even care that I spent that extra money. Shit. Has it really been that long since I did the brake setup.

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Grant Hughes