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DirkaDirkaJack
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DirkaDirkaJack
cheapest dog box
September 19, 2010 05:32PM
random question: what motor is the cheapest dog box made for? If i asked you what the least expensive dogbox is, what motor would it be made for? i am guessing it might have pushrods?
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Dazed_Driver
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Re: cheapest dog box
September 19, 2010 06:05PM
Wouldn't the cheapest dog box just be either a dog engagement gear set for whatever box you have, or a universal RWD oriented dogbox with a removable bell house. Possibly a 4 speed.
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SgtRauksauff
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SgtRauksauff
Re: cheapest dog box
September 19, 2010 06:10PM
~$50 shipped...

smiling smiley


---** To be in compliance with the Anarchy **---
Jorden R. Kleier
Baraboo, Wisconsin, USA
1990 Mazdog Protege 4WD
1973
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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NoCoast
Re: cheapest dog box
September 19, 2010 09:22PM
Well, motor is less important than gearbox.

I'll speak what I know of.
The Ford T-5.
G-Force makes a close ratio dog gear kit for around $2000 last I heard. I've also heard that they are not the greatest both in their labor and their build quality. Though I suspect if you bought the gear kit and had a good builder put one together you'd have a decent box.
For the same box, Gearboxman.co.uk makes a kit as well. A bit more but probably much better. It's in that sweet Capri that was at Nemadji last year and hopefully will show up at LSPR.

But why? So you can have to tear down your gearbox and rebuild it ever few events? I have the T-5 motorsports box which cost me under $1K and even after a few hundred really hard miles, at times harder than it'd be subjected to at rallies, it's still butter smooth into every gear. Change the oil between events and probably should take that used oil and start using it in my power steering system it looks so good.
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john vanlandingham
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john vanlandingham
Re: cheapest dog box
September 19, 2010 11:45PM
The cheapest dog box---if you just have all that dough buring a hole in your pocket and just have to have dog engagement---for whatever reason, I'm sure I don't know whay, is for the most common rallybox in the world: Ford type 9 5 speed.

No surprise that thousands found their way into Opels, Volvos and even Corolla rally cars....

The bigger question is why dog engagement?
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DirkaDirkaJack
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Re: cheapest dog box
September 20, 2010 02:04AM
Quote
NoCoast
Well, motor is less important than gearbox.

yeah that is kind of what spurred this question.

Quote
NoCoast
But why?

purely intellectual masturbation



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2010 02:05AM by DirkaDirkaJack.
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DirkaDirkaJack
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DirkaDirkaJack
Re: cheapest dog box
September 20, 2010 02:06AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
The cheapest dog box---if you just have all that dough buring a hole in your pocket and just have to have dog engagement---for whatever reason, I'm sure I don't know whay, is for the most common rallybox in the world: Ford type 9 5 speed.

No surprise that thousands found their way into Opels, Volvos and even Corolla rally cars....

The bigger question is why dog engagement?

really i was just wondering with dog boxes for most guys $20k+, which guys have the advantage of dog engagement for $6K? not necessarily even rally, just in general.
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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NoCoast
Re: cheapest dog box
September 20, 2010 02:41AM
I see.
Well, I haven't looked in a while but I think it was around $15K for a full blown Gemini dogbox for a Subaru. Which is why most go with a 6 speed stock box instead.

Question John. You say why? I say, how could thousands of T9 dogboxes find their way into Opels, Volvos, Fords, and Toyotas and there not be a good reason to have a dogbox? Maybe we should encourage cool gearboxes, but more importantly, owners that have the ability and knowledge to properly maintain and rebuild them without having to pay someone else thousands every few events to rework the box? Or is that your point? That most privateers don't have the ability and resources to provide the maintenance and thus it's simply an added expense?

I'd love to hear Eric Burmeister's opinion on having cool gearboxes, cause his Xtrac is way freaking cool!
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DirkaDirkaJack
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DirkaDirkaJack
Re: cheapest dog box
September 20, 2010 06:03AM
yeah that is kind of along the lines i am thinking. basically like this: say i have a shell, any shell, and i want to pick the a motor/tranny combo that is the best i can get, not necessarily the same manufacturer or anything. what is the best combination of motor box i can get for a set amount of cash.

basically instead of saying i am going to swap an RB20DET or F22 or whatever hot motor into whatever shell and stick a crappy stock gearbox on the end of it for a total of 10K, what motor/box combination will get me s schweet gearbox and a better total package for the same 10k? some I4 ford motor?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2010 06:03AM by DirkaDirkaJack.
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john vanlandingham
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john vanlandingham
Re: cheapest dog box
September 20, 2010 09:26AM
Quote
NoCoast
Quote

I see.
Well, I haven't looked in a while but I think it was around $15K for a full blown Gemini dogbox for a Subaru. Which is why most go with a 6 speed stock box instead.

Yep but I betcha the price for the Gemini or whatever the "waht all the cool kidz use" is going up as the class popularity goes down.

Quote

Question John. You say why? I say, how could thousands of T9 dogboxes find their way into Opels, Volvos, Fords, and Toyotas and there not be a good reason to have a dogbox?

Grant when youse gotz 65 Grupp H B drivers and 48 Grupp H A drivers or 110 F-cup guys in essence all in one class---you want a dog box---and practice using it (and practice rebuilding it)


Quote

Maybe we should encourage cool gearboxes, but more importantly, owners that have the ability and knowledge to properly maintain and rebuild them without having to pay someone else thousands every few events to rework the box? Or is that your point? That most privateers don't have the ability and resources to provide the maintenance and thus it's simply an added expense?


I say we should encourage those going normal aspirated to get real CLOSE RATIO boxes so I can make them really snappy motors and the box won't make the motor fall flat on its face every shift, but since i have and have supplied in the past some nice close ratio boxes that are syncro boxes and I know the close ratio means the little sycro-animals inside don't have to work to hard when you shift so they shift FAST ENOUGH for the normal human being in North American rally---considering the competition.


It's "horse for course again"---the reason I seem so single minded with the "Get a 2.3 TURBO car that starts with X or V.
Then they don't have to build a motor OR buy a close ratio box to have Tons-O-Fun.

Quote

I'd love to hear Eric Burmeister's opinion on having cool gearboxes, cause his Xtrac is way freaking cool!

Oh he loves them as much as I love mine, but that's no anything any normal human not in that exact luck spot at that lucky time could ever hope to get.
And really had he listen to the better advice he had gotten he wouldn't have made some insane beast of a motor, and had so much development pains for so long---and he would have had more fun..
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DirkaDirkaJack
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DirkaDirkaJack
Re: cheapest dog box
September 20, 2010 12:28PM
so back to the original question, so far you can get cheap dogboxes for:

some I4 ford motor
....and?

i thought maybe the domestic V8 guys would have something cheap?

i think i have seen dog sets for rabbits and RX7's for cheap?
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gpbullock
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gpbullock
Re: cheapest dog box
September 20, 2010 12:40PM
I4 stuff from Quaife seems pretty affordable but once you go to the 5-6 speeds the price goes way up.

http://www.autotech.com/quaife/index2.htm


Gear sets still look spendy for virtually any Quaife gearset.
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Dazed_Driver
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Re: cheapest dog box
September 20, 2010 01:23PM
I think you're looking at it wrong. For example, a type 9 is a gearbox with no bellhouse. You can make an adapter bellhouse to roughly any engine you want. Therefore, even if its not "made" for a particular engine, you can still use it. So something like that would be the most affordable. A universal RWD layout box... unless you're counting gearsets that go into stock boxes. I could see those being cheaper.
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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NoCoast
Re: cheapest dog box
September 20, 2010 01:31PM
T5 in an RX7.
T5 in a V8.
T9 in lower horsepower apps.

Toyota T50 dog boxes I've only very shortly looked at and it seemed they were quite pricey.

Fuck FWD. Go to Drenth and check out the affordability of the VW 02A gearboxes. Gemini makes them too.
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john vanlandingham
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john vanlandingham
Re: cheapest dog box
September 20, 2010 01:42PM
Quote
DirkaDirkaJack
so back to the original question, so far you can get cheap dogboxes for:

some I4 ford motor
....and?

i thought maybe the domestic V8 guys would have something cheap?

i think i have seen dog sets for rabbits and RX7's for cheap?

I still don't understand the "what for" part.


For Group2 wins?
Or Max attack?

And no I realise i don't know what you think cheap is.

What's cheap?
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