Another 510

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eyesoreracing

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Tim Taylor

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hoche
Dave, I'll buy it from you for $2500 and rally it.

Like, right now. If it's close enough to being in rallyable shape, I'll run it in Seed9 next week.

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eyesoreracing
Stop by Tim's and take a look. You might change your mind...

-Dave

It's not at the shop right now. I can get it back there but not until this weekend...most likely Sunday at the earliest.

-Tim

Michel,

I sent you pictures a few months ago, right? So you have the basic idea of how beat that car is, right? Biggest concern about rally readiness is whether they'll let you through tech. I ran the car as recently as Gorman 2006. Pretty sure I lost the logbook before that, but I'm a known quantity and the car is a known quantity, so I may have slipped through where I shouldn't have. Not really sure. I've never run a Rally America event with it, and probably wouldn't be allowed to. NASA has been cool with my shitbox so far, but I don't know how long that would continue.

Pics to jog your memory:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v226/eyesoreracing/Rally%20Beater%20510/

Just trying to save Tim some effort, in case these scare you away.

If you do go look at it, the Cobra seat is not included. There are two OMPs like the one on the co-driver's side.

-Dave

Oi Dave, I think somebody is San Hose-off has done see'd the "gulf" between the fun factor re rwd vs the Virtually Worthless he has been driving.
I'd give him a call--ya know the ol telly pone. We hadz a LONG talk last night about a lotta things but a lot was about snagging this thing QUICK.

Need a phone number?
Call and i'll give it to yaz.

(ain't that the easiest since its just down 17 from where it can be? Fuck me it's THURSDAY CALL!!!

Hi Dave, I don't think you ever sent me pics. I think you were going to but got sidetracked by something lemony. At any rate, yeah, I remember the car. I was at both Rim and Gorman 2006 - I'd rolled my Golf in March and ended up doing course-closing for both of those events. I have a vague recollection of you being broken down on Leona at Rim, and then coming back and running fine at Gorman. Actually, now that I think about it, I may have teched it at Gorman, but I can't remember if I was doing scrutineering that year or if it was Matt 'n' Lulu.

As for the pics you just sent...yep, it's about what I remember, 'cept with more dents.

You actually hiked to the Bridge to Nowhere? I've been meaning to do that, but never seem to get the time when I'm in LA.

I remember a white Golf on 15" rims giving that car a lots of competition too, at Gorman. Something like, "who's this Moser guy..." What a great race, last time Gorman ran outside the OHV park.

-Jon

Yea, I had no idea who that guy was (i'd been out of the dirt for years). We tried to mess with his head in the last service, pretending we forgot our light bar (turns out I don't actually have one. Plenty of light built in to that beast...) Not sure if it worked or not. Since he was seeded in front of us, he couldn't see our stage times on the last two stages as we caught up and passed his times.

Damn, I miss those roads...

-Dave

Moser was/is fast in that VW, held up by JVL suspenders. At the last service, I was busy trying to band-aid his down pipe back together with hose clamps and Sunkist cans. FYI, aluminum cans can't take the heat coming right out of a 2.0L engine. LOL I found burnt remnants of those cans stuck on the heat shields right before the rear axle about 6 month later. Oh well, it last long enough to get him out of the sound check area exiting service.

-Jon

Jon, I'm pretty sure he was still in the Yellow Peril for that event. Bone stock 1.8l 16v, don't know the suspension. I think they ran that through the end of 2006 and didn't start running the white car until 2007. In fact, I think he broke it on 17mi at Laughlin that year and that's what spawned the white car build.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2010 04:22PM by hoche.

You could think that, but it doesn't make it so... LOL Time flies!! Moser ran the yellow car that year until I got the white car race ready; first event was Treeline '06 (July), with 14" rims. Then Gorman we switched it to 15" rims, at Laughlin that year he did have an off, folded up the passenger side arm, broke the power steering pump and axle. Maybe what you remember was the fact that I also towed the yellow car to Laughlin that year to sell it to a guy in Bullhead City. The stipulation was that he didn't take delivery of the car until after the race, incase we needed parts off it. I had a spare arm for it, but not the ps pump, swiped it off the yellow car. '06 is the year I took off to build the Golf, sold the Festiva mid season and started working on my Escort when the Golf was pretty stable and only needed maintenance.

-Jon

*scratches head* I thought the yellow car didn't get sold until 2007. Ok. Apparently my reality is skipping and needs its needle jogged.

Dave, Tim: ate three one, too tree for, ate sebben to sechs. Probably can't do anything about it this weekend (so I'll run the golf at Seed9 next weekend), but I'm serious.

Well, Laughlin practically was the next year, mid Dec.. I think the car has had at least one more owner since, I usually hear from them, asking questions. '07 Rim was the only race Tim and I ran his and my new car at the same time. He got 1st on day 1, I got 1st on day two of the stadium Rim.

-Jon

The Yellow Peril is now the Red Peril, lives in Sacratomato, and ran NNR. Actually, I think the current owner may not refer to it as The Red Peril, but we all know that's what it is.

You need the 510 Hoche, seems more your style, rwd fun.

-Jon

Well we had some snow on the ground yesterday, and i will be kicking off this project by drinking beer and tearing down my old parts car next weekend. Shortly after that, the really scary part starts where i take a perfectly awesome running datsun 510 and separate it into boxes bins and ziploc bags. Last weekend i just fixed a wonky distributor adjustment problem resync'd the carbs, and pulled the valve cover and collected a little tube from the cam spraybar resting in the bottom of the head undamaged (bullet dodged) upside, it was totally spotless in there otherwise. looked like new.

Shame that motor's comin out. I bought one of those ebay special s13 sr20 motors from a 180sx. It came with a whole pile of stuff and wires, so the transplant looks like it is going to happen.

And the suspension stuff is still kicking around in my head. JVL's mention of escort Mk2/mk1 parts upthread got me thinking and measuring and reading a bunch of crazy stuff on turbosport.co.uk. the more i read, the more i liked what i saw.

Turns out the wheelbase of the 510 and the escort are less than 1cm different, and the stock track width between the two cars is dead-nuts on at 1280mm. Haven't looked at differences in wheel backspacing, but most datsoon wheels hover around zero offset.

Further investigation finds the other dimensions close enough to make an escort crossmember, steering rack, and tie rods drop right in. some strut tower modification required, as the ford spindle angles are a bit more severe (15 degrees I think vs whatever the datsun is... 10degrees, 12 deg for the z car bits, or maybe it's the other way around)

Might also be looking at some slight SR20 sump modification to clear the steering rack, but possibly not, as the crossmember would sit further aft than the 510 crossmember by a few inches due to the ford control arms being centered on the crossmember instead of behind the crossmember like the datsun. (which i NEVER liked... just looks wrong to me)

here's an illustration...
http://www.grp4fabrications.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=486

A big money ready-to-roll setup that i won't be buying, but a nice example. looky at them big AP brakes. mmmm

They manufacture brand new stub axles too.

http://www.grp4fabrications.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=593

So i'm thinking... if i keep the steering rack, stub axles, crossmember, tc rods, steering arms, and ctrl arms all escort, and modify my shock towers to suit the ford spindle angle, all the tricky steering geometry stuff takes care of itself, and i have a 2.4 turn manual steering rack and a much stronger and rally proven front suspension setup.

Downsides - it's not cheap. no junkyard spares either.

Also the spindles themselves. sorting out the spindle differences and adapting to nissan brake and hub parts is a big fat DUNNO. Would rather not try to go to ford wheel and bolt spacing and all that business (4x108 vs nissan 4x100 i think?)



For the rear suspension, i haven't decided on the exact plan here, but I have a friend dragging the back-half of a datsun wagon to my place next weekend for a little R&D to see if that solid axle + 4 link coilover transplant business is feasible. if not it will make an interesting little trailer for firewood :lol: ...

I think the datsun H190 rear end will support the 150ish HP i'm expecting to make, and clutch LSDs seem to be available for it due to all the truck-peeps that seem to run these. I could potentially find a more modern rear end set from a newer nissan truck and narrow it, but i'm leaning toward simple being better unless there is a huge compelling reason to do something different or i am certain to break axles.

Anyhow, those turbosport guys have welded up some sweet 4 link boxes, adjustable oilcover suspenders, then maybe threw on a panhard or a fancy watts link. I have a drag racing guru friend who would after some smug remarks, love to help with this conversion.

a couple questions remain - flares. how much wider would i or should i go? i hate to cut the stock fenders but if a wider track can be obtained without messing up the steering stuff i'd consider it and go with a slightly wider rear axle. or wider tires with differently offset wheels. dunno. need to measure more stuff.


please correct me if i'm way out in the weeds with any of this stuff.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2010 10:32AM by dirty_d.

Well you might be able to use a Merkur knuckle with those escort arms, as the merkur setup is basically the same, and I think the balljoint angle is very similar. Then you have junk yard spares.

Where have you found a clutch-type LSD for the H190? I'd like to know if you get them for cheapish.

I ended up ordering a detroit locker for my H190 rear end, and I had to get it from NISMO, shipped from Japn. And it still isn't here, so I'd really like to know what the deal is, I ordered it August 31st. But anyway, ALL the other places in the US that "have" them in stock, don't actually have them in stock, they're just slacking on updating their websites.

So, just as a heads up.

Now, if NISMO tells me I'm SOL, then I think this Escort steering rack might be on the plate to spend that limited slip money on...