Even turned John they are the same pivot length...

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john vanlandingham

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eyesoreracing
its a lot more complicated than either of you are describing, which is why you should install a complete system.

Broken record...

-D

But of course.
That's what I've been saying since---are ya ready?-----1985
Escort MkII was the suggested complete front end then.
Whole fawkin thing.


But tell us why or how "it's more complicated?"

Because this whole time I thought you were talking about sticking an Escort rack in a 510, not swapping a whole Escort subframe/control arms/knuckles, etc. So now my only concern is availability. I see a lot more S13s around than Escorts...

-Dave

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john vanlandingham
Blah blah...

Is all fine and good but crank the rack over ---which sometimes we do to go around corners---and that pivot for the rack moves ----------------------> 5 inches over while oddly, the pivot for the control arm doesn't.

yada yada....

The problem is that you're misreading the objective. The point is not to have the steering arm pivot in the same place as the control arm, as somebody misstated many, many posts ago, the point is to have the steering arm swing through a similar arc as the control arm, always staying relatively parallel, so it doesn't make any steering inputs as the suspension moves. If the steering arm sticks inboard from the steering axis, then the steering arm's inner pivot (when going straight) will be inboard as well.

-Dave

I guess i will have to take photos to illustrate what i see as an obvious conundrum.
A puzzle pregnant with a plethora of potential problems.

This is the problem of text based communication.

Now, I know I'm going to get flamed and told I'm too stupid and can't comprehend what you're saying and how I should learn to read and pay more attention to the classes my mommy and daddy are telling me... BUT


The "problem with text based communication" is a LOT less apparent when people don't make words up, spell them weird, mix languages, and use rare adjectives just to seem worldly and wise.


If any of us were to type our thoughts a bit more clear and with proper English grammar and punctuation (which yes, I am guilty of omitting occasionally) it would be easier to understand one another.

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john vanlandingham
I guess i will have to take photos to illustrate what i see as an obvious conundrum.
A puzzle pregnant with a plethora of potential problems.

This is the problem of text based communication.

You're only looking at it from the front... look at it from the top as well. Then you'll see that the steering arm indeed swings through the same arc as the control arm, when you get the same fixed points.
When the rack goes over, the knuckle moves (the main idea :-)), so with optimal geometry they ARE going through the same arc even at full lock - it just moved to the side, and you can see that when looking from the top.

hm - like you say - hard to explain - especially for someone hasn't got English as his first language... but I hope you get the picture... anyway - Dave is right...

---

Brgrds
Brian

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Dazed_Driver
Now, I know I'm going to get flamed and told I'm too stupid and can't comprehend what you're saying and how I should learn to read and pay more attention to the classes my mommy and daddy are telling me... BUT


The "problem with text based communication" is a LOT less apparent when people don't make words up, spell them weird, mix languages, and use rare adjectives just to seem worldly and wise.


If any of us were to type our thoughts a bit more clear and with proper English grammar and punctuation (which yes, I am guilty of omitting occasionally) it would be easier to understand one another.

Shut up. You're too stupid and can't comprehend what you're saying and how I should learn to read and pay more attention to the classes my mommy and daddy are telling me...

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dumb punk monolinguistico said
The "problem with text based communication" is a LOT less apparent when people don't make words up, spell them weird, mix languages, and use rare adjectives just to seem worldly and wise.

Adults, even foreign adult, ususally seem to be able to understand the overwhelming majority of the words and even more of the concept.

In one of those rare moments you hit the nail on the head:
You're too stupid and can't comprehend what you're saying and how I should learn to read and pay more attention to the classes my mommy and daddy are telling me...

particularly if you are serious that anybody should write some simplified, dumbed down language just so you could follow. You've already been coddled so much in youir life you think you're special, that is in fact the major problem.

No run along Timmy, and let the grown ups keep shooting right by each other.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2010 01:14PM by john vanlandingham.

English is the easiest language to MURDER and it's still understandable. I deal with Asian emails all the time at work, they don't get the wording right, but they usually get the point across.

-Jon

Oops, typo, that should have been "mommy and daddy are paying for"

Secondly, I'm not saying dumbed down. Use as large words as you'd like. Just keep them in the same language and spell them properly.

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Dazed_Driver
Oops, typo, that should have been "mommy and daddy are paying for"

Secondly, I'm not saying dumbed down. Use as large words as you'd like. Just keep them in the same language and spell them properly.

So you're the grammar police now?? Language is the transference of thought, spelling and grammar are the continuity that keeps us all on the same page somewhat. Derek can't spell fer chit yet his thoughts and input have huge value and I understand him just fine, I understand JVL and Wildert also. Why should anyone on this forum have to hold to your sudden grammatical standards? Goe werk on yore phuckin kar !!!

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/74875-510-bart-sr20det-powered-wbmw-suspension/page__st__20

Here's an e-30 front suspension swap. (major shock tower relocation and flares required, but by god it fits and the steering looks sweet.) anyone know off hand what kind of travel you can get from this kind of setup?

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dirty_d
http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/74875-510-bart-sr20det-powered-wbmw-suspension/page__st__20

Here's an e-30 front suspension swap. (major shock tower relocation and flares required, but by god it fits and the steering looks sweet.) anyone know off hand what kind of travel you can get from this kind of setup?

Well nice work, I guess....I didn't see what ratio or turns lock to lock that BMW set up was but I was skimming.
I did see that all that cleaning and NICE sheet metal work yet no additional stitch welding to the front end on seams RIGHT THERE? Always puzzles me. CLEARLY the street scene has never heard of the idea.

Or felt what it dopes to a the feel of a car..

That's some extensive tower work, but it all looks do-able. I think he's whimping out on the Miata rear subframe. It's a much better design than semi-trailing arms. I've been thinking about some kind of project based around the Miata suspension, maybe the whole car, maybe just the suspension into something else...

-Jon

Just going to throw this out there. But if the front suspension/steering is crappy, and the rear suspension is crappy, and body panels are getting harder to find, etc.

What's teh 510 got going for it?

He has an E36 M3 rack in there which are 3.0 turns lock to lock (15.4:1 ratio) for 95's or 3.25 lock to lock (17.8:1 ratio) for the 96'+ cars. The 95's had the variable ratio racks and 96+ had a linear ratio. I don't know if that alternative is any better than the 240sx stuff. I need to find me a 240sx subframe for experimentation....