VW engine question
Posted by Pete
cblakely Chris Blakely Godlike Moderator Location: Renton, WA Join Date: 11/20/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 97 Rally Car: '92 VW GTI 16v on MSnS-E |
josh's point is well made - don't expect perfection with the MS especially out of the box. It takes some tweaking.
I don't know that I'd consider MS (or any other standalone for that matter) as reliable as stock management but there's no reason you can't have it so close that it basically doesn't matter. Also I would argue it is definitely more than a few HP. It might be only a few "peak" HP but the throttle response, mid-range power, etc is all very noticeably increased. Plus, my digifant car started behaving oddly as well, once you start doing things like changing cams, exaust, compression ratio, etc and with no real way to tune it... the drivability (especially on transits) went to shit. Plus modifying and tuning is fun! |
BJosephD Brian j Dyer Super Moderator Location: southern maine Join Date: 05/01/2009 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 381 Rally Car: 04 Rocky Mountain MTB... |
A trip to bahn brenner would get you all you needed to run an old 16v on the factory mgmt of the car. |
BJosephD Brian j Dyer Super Moderator Location: southern maine Join Date: 05/01/2009 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 381 Rally Car: 04 Rocky Mountain MTB... |
Have you picked a direction to go? a turbocharged ITB counterflow 1.8 sounds great, but... there are several hybrids you can do on the cheap with a bit of searching the web. for all out high RPM revs: 1.6l (squarish bore and stroke) solid lifter head a wild cam, dry sump. need more torgue: sneek an ABA under your 1.8 head more power: install 2.0 bigger power: VR6 even more power: aba block with 16v head, turbo. great power low weight: ABA block ABF pisons 16v head and cams Hope that helps. |
Gravity Fed Alex Staidle Ultra Moderator Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Join Date: 08/21/2009 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,719 Rally Car: Various Heaps |
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Pete Pete Remner Junior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
The independents would be on a naturally aspirated lump. I have two choices here... I have a complete RD engine that needs pistons, and a PG engine minus the cylinder head and supercharger. (I *had* the head, but traded it for Audi bits) Turbocharging the PG would be relatively simple with parts on-hand. I have a friend who will do the necessary mods to a 10v exhaust manifold for cheap, and I have spare Audi turbos. Anything ABA-based, while tempting, is out because of a lack of decent (cheap) pistons, and I'd be cursing to fit a short-deck engine in my planned chassis anyway. I guess the issue is, do I want to risk breaking rods with RPM, or risk breaking drivetrain parts with torque. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2010 04:52PM by Pete. |
BJosephD Brian j Dyer Super Moderator Location: southern maine Join Date: 05/01/2009 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 381 Rally Car: 04 Rocky Mountain MTB... |
as far as i know, in order to achieve a high rev motor is to start with one that has a square bore and stroke, the 1.8 is not no matter which way you punch it, the 1.6 is close, again street race vw's run serious oil systems, a stock pump will cavitate starving the head etc. never heard or seen a rod break until you get to the vrts and 20vt
cutting up an audi 10v exhaust manifold does not make a whole lot of sense to me. you would have to cut it in three sections then weld two back together... a chinese ebay turbo manifold would be just as effective. as far as drive train parts goes the weakest link would be the clutch enginge/transmission mounts then maybe the axles. are we still talking about a rally x'er? if so as said before GEARING is where it is at, find a 4y or a 9a 020. done. i heard that guy josh wimpey knows how to drive a golf... Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2010 06:26PM by BJosephD. |
Pete Pete Remner Junior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
You just cut off the 5th cylinder, and if you want to use the external wastegate, you just add it back in. He's done a few of them that way. It's cheaper for me than buying a T3 manifold and a turbo.
I was breaking axles with a slow, bone stock RV. At the last event, an ABA destroyed 2nd gear in an 020. (He's married to the idea of 020s since he has a Good Diff for one) The clutch seems to be the only part that works well...
It's hard to say, and down to region. When I ran mainly small cramped courses, with the Golf, I was very, very happy with the 3.67 final drive. Could wind 1st gear out to 40mph and I didn't mind bouncing the limiter a bunch. (Until I found out that this filled the head with oil) On the other hand, the sites we have access to now are limited as far as tight course arrangements are concerned. I did the math on what an RX-7 with 4.10s and 65cm tires would be doing at 9000rpm in 2nd gear and I didn't like the number. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mega Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
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fliz Chad Eixenberger Mega Moderator Location: Grafton, WI Join Date: 02/01/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 484 Rally Car: 1988 VW Golf #687 |
I'll have to give them a call. Although getting the car there is out of the question. |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Senior Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
For SCCA style rallycross, a stock 1.8 or 2.0 16v will be fine. Just drive it hard....really, really, really hard.
In 2000 to 2004, I consistently set FTDs and finished in the top3 overall with fields of 50+ entrants (including Otis Dimiters in his subaru) in a bone stock 1987 1.8l 16v gti with stock everything except bilsteins, Shine springs and a weld-in Autopower roll cage (open diff even) both on the east coast and in Colorado. The short courses reward controlled aggression over just about anything you could do to the car. Toughest competition came from 2 brothers who ran a very carefully lightened fwd Izuzu Impulse 1.6L that was pretty nearly bone stock otherwise but was under 1800lbs. In the interest of saving people from wasting money, below I have listed some suggestions for SCCA rallycross cars. Suggested rallycross car criteria: 1) Any small, light, running car in decent condition with all suspension and brake parts tight and well functioning 2) Well mounted radiator 3) Cooling fan 4) functioning rev limiter 5) NO OTHER CRITERIA :-) |
Pete Pete Remner Junior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
Sure, if you just like fucking around. I want the car to kick ass so I can't point any blame for failure on anything but myself. FWIW - I was running about the same times as this non-stock Evo before it broke: Would have placed one hell of a lot better if I picked up on the driving style changes I needed to make a little bit sooner. Still was wishing for more power, of course. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2010 08:32PM by Pete. |
C LePoudre C LePoudre Infallible Moderator Location: Warman, Saskatchewan Join Date: 07/07/2006 Posts: 32 Rally Car: G2 VW Golf |
It's your money and time to spend, but the advice from experienced guys like Josh and John should be considered seriously.
I've done something similar to what you're asking about to a 2.0 16v, spending (literally) thousands of dollars to make the bottom strong, lots of head work, crank scrapers, big cams, ........ If I was going to do another VW, I'd find a 2.0 16v at a wrecker with good compression numbers, put some moderate cams in, and go have fun and save money. It it blows up, go find another one. |
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