Hello,

My name is Sean. long time lurker, first time poster.

I have a couple of Celica 4wd's that I'm putting together.

Just looking to meet some cool people in this new hobby I'm diving into. Also to get some advice from the locals, and get the low down on the local events.

I posted some build pictures on SS & it didn't go very well. Lot's of VW golf talk. I think I'm about done w/ that site. lot's of negativity.



This is my OL car, a 88 all-trac. I've kind of neglected this car due to other paying jobs in the shop, but have recently gained the steam to bang this thing out. While I haven't been physically working on the car, I have been collecting parts for it. I recently reached out to JVAB to see if we can get something going for struts. I really want to drive this thing.

Anyway, thanks for having me, and I look forward to hopefully meeting some of y'all.

Sean

http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38322&highlight=celica+open+light&page=2

Was this you? (how many new guys named Sean have red Open light celica all tracs....)

That wasn't a poor reception...

But welcome.

Ah yes my old thread.

Maybe I'm just sensitive.

Eh, don't worry about it. And yeah, collecting parts is pretty nice. I like the idea of putting my car together (slowly... but I'm not fond of this part, haha) and having the only thing I want to upgrade left be the transmission.

Build the Bimmer in the background instead.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2010 07:18AM by wvonkessler.

You won't always get polite around this site either, but it's mostly all meant tonge-n-cheek. I'm a Celica fan, like the AWD models, especially the later ones, but loving my '84 beast right now...

-Jon

Since you are collecting parts here is a link: http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=38968 That's a smoking deal on the part which will make the biggest difference in how your car handles other than the good struts. See the Cusco plate diff...you really want it for a heavy under-steering pig like an All-trac. The exchange rate with Japan is brutal and it would cost you close to $2K+ to get one now plus you would still need to find the stub shafts. Offer him about half than and you'll probably get it.

I have an street '88 st-165 and I would never even consider building it into a rally car.

-Tim

Quote
Tim Taylor
Since you are collecting parts here is a link: http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=38968 That's a smoking deal on the part which will make the biggest difference in how your car handles other than the good struts. See the Cusco plate diff...you really want it for a heavy under-steering pig like an All-trac. The exchange rate with Japan is brutal and it would cost you close to $2K+ to get one now plus you would still need to find the stub shafts. Offer him about half than and you'll probably get it.

I have an street '88 st-165 and I would never even consider building it into a rally car.

-Tim

Which rwd car would you build--Toyota with lockwashers E300?
E-whatysix Beee Em?

4 door 240 Volvo?

It is pretty amazing how many guys who have already finished and run turbo 4wd cars are Getting back to the Future---and going rwd.

Seems such a conundrum tho that it seems impossible to convince folks in advance that 1/3 the money into a 240 Volvo 2.3T or an Xratty gets them a car which
a) works better
works way funner.

Me included!! I did build my Cossie than as 4x4---

What should we be doing to save people 10s of thousands of dollars when they eventually sell their 'spensive thangs? Cause aside from the Xratty, hain't many that can convert in an afternoon to a good well balanced rwd car.

Welcome. Where you from?

That is a pretty nice shop you have there!

I rallied Damitios AllTrac for a couple stages(until the inlet boot tore). It was quite the ...pig comes to mind. Heavy handling if I recall.

I remember reading about someone in Cali that took their AT and put everything under a FX16 and said it was nite and day. Seems like it was one of the fast guys back then (damned failing memory).

The message on SS you missed was that it appears you are way over prepping the car for starters. Extensive seam welding does no real good at todays speeds. I usually do a smidgeon around the cage mounts and the struts. Moderate prep, good cage, JVAB suspension and get on stage. The forces involved in smacking a 3000lb rally car easily overcome any shell prep. At that point the seam welding makes repair much harder, if it can even be fixed.

The other message you might hear is sell that stuff off and build a proper RWD car.

But welcome anyway...

Quote
heymagic
I rallied Damitios AllTrac for a couple stages(until the inlet boot tore). It was quite the ...pig comes to mind. Heavy handling if I recall.

I remember reading about someone in Cali that took their AT and put everything under a FX16 and said it was nite and day. Seems like it was one of the fast guys back then (damned failing memory).

The message on SS you missed was that it appears you are way over prepping the car for starters. Extensive seam welding does no real good at todays speeds. I usually do a smidgeon around the cage mounts and the struts. Moderate prep, good cage, JVAB suspension and get on stage. The forces involved in smacking a 3000lb rally car easily overcome any shell prep. At that point the seam welding makes repair much harder, if it can even be fixed.

The other message you might hear is sell that stuff off and build a proper RWD car.

But welcome anyway...

Yeah that thing with the Mr.2 box centers on final drive.
They ARE a heavy car---but in truth all the modern Sububitchis and Misterburas are also heavy. Hell My kinda fave "ideal for clubbie who just has to have a turbo 4wd" car the Misterbitchy Gaylant is quite heavy, even back in the day as a works car, but they worked quite fantastic despite the weight.

So if everything turd-boat 4x4 weighs a lot (my Cossie 4x4 thing weighs 2720lbs)(neeener neeener!) it comes down to other things like:BRAKES, get set and final drive and a flexible, torquey motor.

I think some of those Mr2 things have 4.2 or 4.28 and that would be pretty gawddam good in a TURBO 2 lite.

But "The New Sean" said sumpin about Stupor Prod or sumpin...
Or Open Lite?

Tell me the turbo can stay--tell me!

Quote
john vanlandingham
Which rwd car would you build--Toyota with lockwashers E300?
E-whatysix Beee Em?

4 door 240 Volvo?

It is pretty amazing how many guys who have already finished and run turbo 4wd cars are Getting back to the Future---and going rwd.

Seems such a conundrum tho that it seems impossible to convince folks in advance that 1/3 the money into a 240 Volvo 2.3T or an Xratty gets them a car which
a) works better
works way funner.

Me included!! I did build my Cossie than as 4x4---

What should we be doing to save people 10s of thousands of dollars when they eventually sell their 'spensive thangs? Cause aside from the Xratty, hain't many that can convert in an afternoon to a good well balanced rwd car.

Currently enamored with building a "Fjord Ranchero" rally wagon out of a Volvo 245 and a Mazda MZR engine with a Miata 6-speed transmission. Second choice would be a '95 E36 BMW... The 'busa powered BMW 1600 has jumped the line on those projects though.


Back to the OP. Turbo All-tracs are fun but the shells are built like a tank. I wouldn't even bother to seam weld one because they're so strong from the factory. Getting a good good struts on it is priority #1, next is getting a good plate style rear diff, and then change out the brakes for st-185 parts (yes, it's downgrading to single piston front calipers but they work better and you can get good pad materials). That's where you stop...resist the urge to do anything else cute and time consuming.

http://www.celica.net/videos/Rally/gt4-rally-history.mpg.mpeg

OK I've gone and read the poopy hoo-ha on SS dot com.
Hilariously one of the guys telling you "I never seam welded anything!!!!" said Subarus are built tough"
Oi!


ALL modern cars are very lightly built, Subies no worse, but certainly no better than any other piece of shit, made out of the foil in my ciggie pack, origami junk.

Thus, if somebody says "Subies are built tough" EITHER they're very slow and/or haven't a clue what tough is.



. It's telephone time.
Rally light means NO TURBO.
No turbo means either you find some seriously short final drive---and i mean final drive like 5.1 AND a fairly high comp+lumpity lump cam


or the thing will be slower than a Goooey Metro (Trivia: How many here know that GM marketed Geo Metro was named after the PNW marine creature the Geoduck?)

Sean, I'm calling you.
Whoever you've been talking to so far is not advising you well.

The ST165 as a PGT car was, even when driven by then National Champion, easily cught on stages as short at 6 miles by ME in my old 1969 V4 Saab 96.

That's saying with turbo and original box and final drive it was good enough to beat all the Eclipses in the country, but easy to annihilate on muddy or snowy conditions....

Don't BOX YOURSELF IN for no good reason, leave your mind and your options open.

Maybe you don't WANT to do turbo, but a correctly sized turbo---maybe not the OEM thing cause they not the commonest thing in the world, but there are really excellent for rally 2 liter motors just filling a shelf over there-------> means you don't HAVE to build a monster motor and still have the FOOT-LEBZ to move the car "good enough"

And a combo of good torquey motor and slightly shorter final drive than a mpg oriented road car is half the keys to happiness.

Thank you guys for all the helpfull hints.

John I'm calling you now.

I'm kind of forced to use the all-trac. I now have four of these things, and quite the host of spares. I hear ya guys on the whole "don't over prep it, your a noob" subject. I can't help it, I like building cars.

I originally picked Open Light becuase as far as I knew at the time, that was the only way I could run a 4wd car my first year rallying w/ RA's rules.

My plan now is to sort out the cars suspension(Jvab), Gearing/differentials, and try to make the car easier to work on, It's pretty cramped 80's style.

Tim Taylor, I am interested in why you would never rally a Celica, but you would a 323?

I do have another running all-trac w/ a turbo, that's a cage away from being ready to party. What are the local rules on rookies running turbo/4wd?

Rookies running 4wd....DooWops, Olympus, Oregon Trail are all RallyAmerica events. No noobs with AWD turbos, AWD with NA motors allowed. Mt.Hood is NASA RallySport and allows noobs w/turbos. Canada.. I know nussing. Wild West < hopefully dead and forgotten> you never know about. Idaho Rally I'm not sure of, a new organizer for next year I understand.