Audi 80 questions

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Rallymech
I agree with Sean about the driveability. I have been in two cars that had extremely light flywheels and sintered bronze clutches. They were horrible to drive at anything less than 100%.

I can barely tell the difference between a 9.5lb aluminum flywheel and a stock 26-30lb anchor in the Mazda. Maybe revs a little quicker in neutral.

The car came with an ACT heavy duty puck clutch, which functions like a switch even though the pressure plate has some serious leverage built in - you have to practically put your left foot into the water pump to get enough travel to disengage. I didn't use it for very long.

On a lark, when I put the latest engine together, I used the (6-puck metal) disk with a good condition OEM pressure plate. Damn thing is driveable like stock. Shocked, surprised, and very happy.

I'm considering a spec, or a southbend unit. I've recently heard of some bad experiences with the spec buxclutches (I went with spec in my last audi with no regrets) The spec unit is also cheaper by bux

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Pete

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Rallymech
I agree with Sean about the driveability. I have been in two cars that had extremely light flywheels and sintered bronze clutches. They were horrible to drive at anything less than 100%.

I can barely tell the difference between a 9.5lb aluminum flywheel and a stock 26-30lb anchor in the Mazda. Maybe revs a little quicker in neutral.

The car came with an ACT heavy duty puck clutch, which functions like a switch even though the pressure plate has some serious leverage built in - you have to practically put your left foot into the water pump to get enough travel to disengage. I didn't use it for very long.

On a lark, when I put the latest engine together, I used the (6-puck metal) disk with a good condition OEM pressure plate. Damn thing is driveable like stock. Shocked, surprised, and very happy.

You're working on a Lark? straight 6? Slant 6?
What year?

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john vanlandingham

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Pete

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Rallymech
I agree with Sean about the driveability. I have been in two cars that had extremely light flywheels and sintered bronze clutches. They were horrible to drive at anything less than 100%.

I can barely tell the difference between a 9.5lb aluminum flywheel and a stock 26-30lb anchor in the Mazda. Maybe revs a little quicker in neutral.

The car came with an ACT heavy duty puck clutch, which functions like a switch even though the pressure plate has some serious leverage built in - you have to practically put your left foot into the water pump to get enough travel to disengage. I didn't use it for very long.

On a lark, when I put the latest engine together, I used the (6-puck metal) disk with a good condition OEM pressure plate. Damn thing is driveable like stock. Shocked, surprised, and very happy.

You're working on a Lark? straight 6? Slant 6?
What year?

Flat head or OHV , no slant six or a 283, 289 V8 option.. I had a couple in hi school

The 20vT motors (3b or AAN) are easy to get to 300hp to the wheels - the 10vT isn't as easy w/CIS but can be done with variable rate voltage based on boost pressure to get more fuel in the mix. CIS is fuel starved after about 225Hp to the wheels.

However, now the rage is to put a 4.2V8 (50lbs lighter than the 20vt, and shorter) which will get you 300hp out of the box...into these small chassis cars.

Killing an 016 takes some work - I think old school audi trannies are pretty darn stout.

They do handle like crap - but that can be remedied - and you really can't beat the sound.

I'll be putting the 4k on scales in the next while here - so will be able to see how far from 50/50 the rig really is.

2 biggest Audi engineering brain farts where Wiring and CIS - and CIS only because its finicky - when it works, its the bomb - but one little vacuum leak and its in the shitter...80's and early 90's wiring was Lucas bad...

Building an Audi for any sporting endeavor is really dumb unless you just love the car and the history like this dumbass (being me) does (and I've learned a helluva lot more 'cause I've had to do everything custom ).

If I were you and MaxAttack were the goal, I'd follow the general advice described herein - XR, Volvo. Lots of already figured out stuff, fast, fun and way slideways...

Spank the Audi as long as you want - but build something else (unless of course you just gotta drive an Audi)

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vbares
Killing an 016 takes some work - I think old school audi trannies are pretty darn stout.

People are breaking them, though. People are breaking them at the 500hp level on the street (what's wheel horsepower? Don't care bout useless info like that) and Audi never really used it in the rally efforts - too fragile even at low Group 4 levels of power.

Okay, so it's a lot stronger than Subaru, but in the grand scheme of things that isn't saying much. It's also stronger than the 01A, which you can break with a mild four-banger.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2011 02:21PM by Pete.

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Pete


People are breaking them, though. People are breaking them at the 500hp level on the street

Put your mind to it, you can break anything. Most of the guys running that level of power are running 01E's - many of them are running modified 01E's and twisting shafts on the drag strip as they approach 700hp.

But yeah, 01A's are soft in comparison. The last 016 I changed out made it through 22 rallies - but running low power (180whp). We'll find out if 350hp will be too much for it in practice this year.

Lets make this a more productive thread then - which tranny's, in stock form, that can go into a rally car are the strongest?

wide first gear 01e is best for longevity/strength. I haven't heard of many people breaking the 016. I think most folks swap it out because they want longer gears, or they are excited about torsen.

Vbares, I do love audi's. I haven't really finalized anything with this car's plans. Getting time in the shop is rare enough, that I'll be lucky to finish the motor swap by june.

Agreed on the longer 1st (mostly guys that are racing straight line), but for Rally purposes, I think the '84 016 has a shorter ratio which is more appropriate.

If I've learned anything from JVL, ratio's, ratio's, ratio's....

The 10v Swap shouldn't be too bad...I don't even think you need to change the bracket for the power steering pump. The most fabricating you'll need to do is the intercooler - and that depends on how stock you want the car to look. Then its 4 or 5 wires to run the thing. You might have to study a bit if you want the pre-check stuff to work - oh yeah getting the tach to work may also be an issue...

We were given an 88 90, and swapped an AAN motor into it, but used a V6 radiator so we could have a front mount, couple of JEGS fans and that sucker stays cool all the time. Downside is very little clearance to the Alternator - holed 2 rads before we got that figured out

I'm sure you've been on motorgeek.com lots of projects you can copy from.

Good luck w/the swap!

Pulled the trigger on an 84 4k trans with quite a bit shorter gears and locking center diff (60bux). Also committed myself to non street car by yanking the interior. Started cleaning out the wiring harness. ABS removal tonight. Looks like I'm gonna try to rally this sucker, who cares what class it ends up in, I'm going for cheap and sideways.

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aj_johnson
Pulled the trigger on an 84 4k trans with quite a bit shorter gears and locking center diff (60bux). Also committed myself to non street car by yanking the interior. Started cleaning out the wiring harness. ABS removal tonight. Looks like I'm gonna try to rally this sucker, who cares what class it ends up in, I'm going for cheap and sideways.

Keep in mind that that the earlier 016 transmission is not a direct bolt in to later model 80. The front axle shafts come out in a different position than the 01A, I can't remember if it's further forward or back. Shift linkage is different, too.

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Doivi Clarkinen

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aj_johnson
Pulled the trigger on an 84 4k trans with quite a bit shorter gears and locking center diff (60bux). Also committed myself to non street car by yanking the interior. Started cleaning out the wiring harness. ABS removal tonight. Looks like I'm gonna try to rally this sucker, who cares what class it ends up in, I'm going for cheap and sideways.

Keep in mind that that the earlier 016 transmission is not a direct bolt in to later model 80. The front axle shafts come out in a different position than the 01A, I can't remember if it's further forward or back. Shift linkage is different, too.

I am aware. Correct me if I'm wrong but I should be able to swap output flanges from the 01A and still be able to use the B3 shafts in spite of the angle.
Shift linkage is going to be fun. There is very little documentation of this swap. I may just cut the trans tunnel in order to be able to use the 4k shift linkage. Cross that bridge when I get there.

I know for a fact that it's been done before... some B3 drag racers yank the 01A and pop in an 016 because they have that much faith in the 01A.

http://www.toxcheap.com/90turboquattro/driveline/index.html

It appears that he used rear axles from... something. You should be able to just see which axles people use when they put B3 uprights in a B2.

If you get stuck I can ask Mike (tox cheap) what he used - he's local here.

I can tell you that with the 2-piece upright swap in the 4k; drivers side you can use the 4k shaft, and the B2 shaft on the passenger side.

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vbares
If you get stuck I can ask Mike (tox cheap) what he used - he's local here.

I can tell you that with the 2-piece upright swap in the 4k; drivers side you can use the 4k shaft, and the B2 shaft on the passenger side.

And that 2 piece strut/hub swap allows much easy build of really nice struts.

Just saying...................