AE86 Cage Update?

Joel and I have the roof off the Corolla right now and are considering adding some roof bars. It's my understanding that the current cage is grandfathered in and doesn't technically need any updating and it would be purely to increase our safety. I'm not sure what the accepeted method for updates is, the cage is out of 1.5" and has an SCCA Logbook it was built by the original owner "Villy" around 2003.

Here are some pictures:

"Grandfathering" isn't a kingspass forever. It can be dropped at anytime a sanctioning body feels the need to upgrade safety. So...the more important bars are actually another door bar and the A pillar support, roof bars would be 3rd on my list. I would do all 3 if it were me, and maybe consider doing an actual X in the main hoop just for grins and giggles.

I remember when that car rolled a few years back.

word on the street is that you are building it into a drift truck

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heymagic
"Grandfathering" isn't a kingspass forever. It can be dropped at anytime a sanctioning body feels the need to upgrade safety. So...the more important bars are actually another door bar and the A pillar support, roof bars would be 3rd on my list. I would do all 3 if it were me, and maybe consider doing an actual X in the main hoop just for grins and giggles.

I remember when that car rolled a few years back.

Is there something wrong with---from rules perspective only----the dual diagonals???

And Blake, do a V from center of main hoop V-ing forward---seems the best head/helmet clearance.

And yeah a low X in the doors---its sorta why snot since its easy---but thing what a broken rib does when it pokes thru your lungs. I've cracked ribs and they hurt, broken is even nastier.

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john vanlandingham
Is there something wrong with---from rules perspective only----the dual diagonals???

And Blake, do a V from center of main hoop V-ing forward---seems the best head/helmet clearance.

And yeah a low X in the doors---its sorta why snot since its easy---but thing what a broken rib does when it pokes thru your lungs. I've cracked ribs and they hurt, broken is even nastier.

For the roof brace, think along what John has said: Hed and helmet clearance. I always tell folks to mount in the seat in the actual positions, and see where your head and helmets set, and make the decision. A V is usually best but I have run across one car (a Focus) where the X in the roof was better for head/helmet clearance than the V.

I prefer a sill bar and single sloped side bar.

I don't understand the dual diagonal question, John.

Regards,
Mark B.

Broken ribs REALLY suck!

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

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Rallymech
Broken ribs REALLY suck!

Air.

John, are you asking about the V bar in the center hoop (dual diagonals??) ?


And I'm with Mark on the door bar configuration. I like a straight lower and an angled upper rather than the X style, or a straight lower and a shallow V'd upper.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2011 06:27PM by heymagic.

Quote
heymagic
John, are you asking about the V bar in the center hoop (dual diagonals??) ?


And I'm with Mark on the door bar configuration. I like a straight lower and an angled upper rather than the X style, or a straight lower and a shallow V'd upper.

I's a askin if you know any rumblings to ignore the FIA spec which CLEARLY give the options of an X in plane of main hoop----like everybody faddishly has been doing,

or dual diagonals aka an X from MAIN HOOP both sides to rear.?

John, where have you seen that?

My understanding was that FIA rally cages required the main hoop X, and one of the configurations for the downbars was an X. A V to the center of the main hoop can also be used, but only with a matching V in the roof.

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fliz
John, where have you seen that?

My understanding was that FIA rally cages required the main hoop X, and one of the configurations for the downbars was an X. A V to the center of the main hoop can also be used, but only with a matching V in the roof.

Why in section 253, of course. Where else?

FIA requires X in the main hoop for all new construction.

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heymagic
FIA requires X in the main hoop for all new construction.

For all cars homologated after xx Jan 200x.

As I read it it seems pretty clear that you EITHER do main hoop X or 2 diagonals.

But wot da fock do I's knows?

let's see:
Cars homologated before 01/01/2002 :
The cage must have one of the diagonal members defined by
Drawings 253-4, 253-5, 253-6. The orientation of the diagonal may
be reversed.
In the case of Drawing 253-6, the distance between the two
mountings on the bodyshell/chassis must not be greater than
300mm.
Members must be straight and may be removable.
The upper end of the diagonal must join the main rollbar no further
than 100 mm from its junction with the backstay, or the backstay
no more than 100 mm from its junction with the main rollbar (see
Drawing 253-52 for the measurement).
The lower end of the diagonal must join the main rollbar or the
backstay no further than 100 mm from the mounting foot (except
for the case of Drawing 253-6).

Cars homologated as from 01/01/2002 :
The cage must have two diagonal members on the main rollbar
according to Drawing 253-7.
Members must be straight and may be removable.
The lower end of the diagonal must join the main rollbar no further
than 100 mm from the mounting foot (see Drawing 253-52 for the
measurement).
The upper end of the diagonal must join the main rollbar no further
than 100 mm from its junction with the backstay.


Hmmmm where did I see it?
Oh re roof:
8.3.2.1.3 Roof reinforcement :
Cars homologated as from 01/01/2005 only :
The upper part of the safety cage must comply with one of
Drawings 253-12, 253-13 and 253-14.
The reinforcements may follow the curve of the roof.

Gets more interesting:
Windscreen pillar reinforcement :
Cars homologated as from 01/01/2006 only :
It must be fitted on each side of the front rollbar if dimension "A" is
greater than 200 mm (Drawing 253-15).
It may be bent on condition that it is straight in side view and that
the angle of the bend does not exceed 20°.
Its upper end must be less than 100 mm from the junction between
the front (lateral) rollbar and the longitudinal (transversal) member
(see Drawing 253-52 for the measurement).
Its lower end must be less than 100 mm from the (front) mounting
foot of front (lateral) rollbar


Interesting regarding the cage dimensions:
dimensions
(mm)
Use

Main rollbar
or
Lateral rollbars
according to
construction......................45 x 2.5
(1.75"x0.095")
or
50 x 2.0
(2.0"x0.083"




Lateral halfrollbars
and other
parts of the
safety cage
(unless
otherwise
indicated in the
articles above)..............................38 x 2.5 (1.5"x0.095")
...............................................or..40 x 2.0 (1.6"x0.083" )

What's this?

Second one down is drawing 253-21, third one is 253-22


It says clearly:
8.3.2.2.3 Diagonales de jambes de force arrière (Dessin 253-
21) :
La configuration du Dessin 253-21 peut-être remplacée par celle
du Dessin 253-22 si un renfort de toit conforme au Dessin 253-14

or for youse guys:
8.3.2.2.3 Backstay diagonals (Drawing 253-21) :
The configuration of Drawing 253-21 may be replaced with that of
Drawing 253-22 if a roof reinforcement complying with Drawing
253-14 is used



It says you can use "drawing 253-21" instead of "253-22" IF you use roof reinforcment as i suggested--probably where i saw it---like in FIA drawing 253-14,


All this is of course reading both the English and the French which of course isn't Mid-westese which I don't speak or even understand.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2011 09:43PM by john vanlandingham.

Hey Blake, you gonna do some prophylactic stitching in the front end?
And maybe take a page from Ford and add a gusset where the inner chassi leg meets the firewall?


Well ya oughtter.

See in the piccie? I say you're gonna do it sooner or later..
Now means "stitch"

Later means "repair, pull car on frame rack then stitch."

I believe it is already later and is one of the main reasons this project is being under taken. Perhaps as a result of a heavy foot at the idaho jump