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slidewayswrx
I believe it is already later and is one of the main reasons this project is being under taken. Perhaps as a result of a heavy foot at the idaho jump

(teeeeee heeeeeeeee )

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heymagic
the more important bars are actually another door bar and the A pillar support, roof bars would be 3rd on my list. I would do all 3 if it were me, and maybe consider doing an actual X in the main hoop just for grins and giggles.

Hey Gene, thanks for the reply, I was a bit bummed when you couldn't make it down here yesterday... I agree with you that the roof bars are the last on the list but with the roof off it's the perfect time to add them.

If I do a "V" in the roof do I then have to do Dual diagonals in the main hoop like John is saying or change the rear stays from an X to a V so something meets up on the other side of the junction?

I don't think an X in the roof would give us enough head/helmet room.

I not really thrilled about cutting out parts of the cage that are already in there won't that weaken the tubing?

Yeah John what pat said, the front end is starting to separate at the firewall, I'm thinking to run tubes to plated in towers like Timm's and some sort of gusset is the one like you pictured all I need I was thinking it would need to be more substantial?

Hey John I need to Regrease my Sooper bitchen spenders what grease should I use?

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sidewaez

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heymagic
the more important bars are actually another door bar and the A pillar support, roof bars would be 3rd on my list. I would do all 3 if it were me, and maybe consider doing an actual X in the main hoop just for grins and giggles.

Hey Gene, thanks for the reply, I was a bit bummed when you couldn't make it down here yesterday... I agree with you that the roof bars are the last on the list but with the roof off it's the perfect time to add them.

If I do a "V" in the roof do I then have to do Dual diagonals in the main hoop like John is saying or change the rear stays from an X to a V so something meets up on the other side of the junction?

I don't think an X in the roof would give us enough head/helmet room.

I not really thrilled about cutting out parts of the cage that are already in there won't that weaken the tubing?

Yeah John what pat said, the front end is starting to separate at the firewall, I'm thinking to run tubes to plated in towers like Timm's and some sort of gusset is the one like you pictured all I need I was thinking it would need to be more substantial?

You can put in any of the roof bars, the rear bars aren't required at all by the FIA . In order to build to any of the earlier FIA specs then the car has to be a homolgated model and the material needs to be CDS and meet every letter of the FIA cage spec. Even then it may be a difficult sell as no car other than a Beetle or old SAAB should be built without A pilla support bars.

Since the car has a rally history with this cage, and since you're not cutting it out and redoing it from scratch, I would interpret this as being a previously-constructed cage, and thus subject to the following:

At RA events: the old Appendix 1 "Roll cage standards for existing construction" (last printed in the 2007 rulebook).

At NRS events: the minimums set by NRS in their last publicly-available rollcage rules (2009). (The link is broken on their website. If you click on the cage rules link, it takes you to their 2008 rules. The correct link is http://www.nasarallysport.com/rules-forms/2009-NASA-Rally-Sport-GRR-Appendix-B.pdf).

By both sets of rules, the car is fine *as is*.

The FIA rules don't enter into the equation.



However, I would recommend the following:

1) The addition of A-pillar reinforcement bars. This might be kind of tricky as that "sill" bar is pretty high up, and I like to see the A-pillar reinforcement bar go all the way to the foot.

2) A second set of doorbars on each side. Just a straight tube run at a diagonal from about the height where the V in the main hoop is down to where that sill bar hits the A-pillar.

3) Roofbars. A forward V, backwards V, or X, doesn't matter. Mount the seats and do whatever gives the most headroom. It's hard to do with roof off, but maybe consider putting a bend in them to tuck them up into the roof more to give yourself even more headroom.

Also maybe consider throwing a pair of tacos on the rear X.

It was my understanding that if any changes were made to the cage that the previous logbook inspection is null and void.
Gene?

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phlat65
It was my understanding that if any changes were made to the cage that the previous logbook inspection is null and void.
Gene?

Nope. A logbook is a history of the vehicle. Competition eligibility is determined by the current sanctioning bodies.

Upgrades and repairs should be inspected by a scrutineer. If someone adds a bar and misses part of the weld they could fail tech. If something is added that compromises safety they could fail tech.

If Blake is going thru the trouble to add roof bars then he should add a couple more bars as several suggested. He gets an Attaboy for doing so.

John.
All home built cages must conform to the newest homologation date.
So even if you are building a cage in a 1972 Volvo, you have to cage it just like it was a 2011 Fiesta.

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NoCoast
John.
All home built cages must conform to the newest homologation date.
So even if you are building a cage in a 1972 Volvo, you have to cage it just like it was a 2011 Fiesta.

That part of the Mid-westese dialect I understand, but nowhere in any ASN or FIA site does it say that---and I've read them all.

And frankly, that interpretation seems nothing short of insane.

My plan is to put in a V from the middle of the main hoop out towards the a-pillar bars I'll see if I need to bend them up at all.

for the door bars and the A-pillar support bar it seems like that high sill bar is going to interfere should I just cut it out?

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NoCoast
John.
All home built cages must conform to the newest homologation date.
So even if you are building a cage in a 1972 Volvo, you have to cage it just like it was a 2011 Fiesta.

Grant is right.

To run in Rally America you either have to build a "Rally America Cage", a cage that's got current FIA homologation papers, or is an FIA cookbook cage. Some older cages are grandfathered, but it's risky to depend on that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2011 12:15PM by modernbeat.

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john vanlandingham

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NoCoast
John.
All home built cages must conform to the newest homologation date.
So even if you are building a cage in a 1972 Volvo, you have to cage it just like it was a 2011 Fiesta.

That part of the Mid-westese dialect I understand, but nowhere in any ASN or FIA site does it say that---and I've read them all.

And frankly, that interpretation seems nothing short of insane.

That's because they aren't intended for home built cages.
Who gives a fuck what the ASN or FIA rules say? The US sanctioning bodies have chosen to use an international standard of the highest specification in order to protect themselves legally. The only logical thing to do would be to require all builds to the highest standards. Anything less would be handing a peach to any lawyer. "So even though this car races on the same roads and at the same speeds as other cars, you allowed it to have a different and potentially inferior design for it's roll cage?"

I personally think having two helmets floating around the cockpit because they can't go behind the seats isn't worth whatever benefit the main hoop X gives. But okay.

What strut tops are you using upfront?

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john vanlandingham

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NoCoast
John.
All home built cages must conform to the newest homologation date.
So even if you are building a cage in a 1972 Volvo, you have to cage it just like it was a 2011 Fiesta.

That part of the Mid-westese dialect I understand, but nowhere in any ASN or FIA site does it say that---and I've read them all.

And frankly, that interpretation seems nothing short of insane.

Frankly, I'd think your interpretation is slightly insane. Crash standards are updated all the time. There is no doubt that a 2011 model year car is safer from the factory than a 2000 or 1990 car. Why would you possibly think that an older car needs a lesser cage?

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fliz

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john vanlandingham

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NoCoast
John.
All home built cages must conform to the newest homologation date.
So even if you are building a cage in a 1972 Volvo, you have to cage it just like it was a 2011 Fiesta.

That part of the Mid-westese dialect I understand, but nowhere in any ASN or FIA site does it say that---and I've read them all.

And frankly, that interpretation seems nothing short of insane.

Frankly, I'd think your interpretation is slightly insane. Crash standards are updated all the time. There is no doubt that a 2011 model year car is safer from the factory than a 2000 or 1990 car. Why would you possibly think that an older car needs a lesser cage?

Possibly because it WAS more than adequate?

The cage rules have become totally insane. A well built cage cira 2000 is FAR safer than a "new style" cage built to the letter of the rules, poorly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2011 02:49PM by Gravel Spray.